thebackalleys

archives => delicious => Topic started by: emanhattan on November 25, 2008 08:39 AM

Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: emanhattan on November 25, 2008 08:39 AM
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/470909 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/470909)

This guy already had submitted this, but since he was unnoticed he figured out he´d submitt it again until his dreams BECAME TRUE
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: psi43 on November 25, 2008 08:58 AM
ok

the whole "awesome" talk is getting really gay
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 25, 2008 08:59 AM
ok great cool thanks
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: shura on November 25, 2008 10:08 AM
jesus christ. it's never going to end, is it?

im getting really tired of the word "awesome". now every time i hear someone using it in everyday conversation, i cringe. i hate that adjective
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Ashington on November 25, 2008 10:19 AM
Quote from: Sashura
jesus christ. it's never going to end, is it?

im getting really tired of the word "awesome". now every time i hear someone using it in everyday conversation, i cringe. i hate that adjective

better get used to it, it's going to be a long time before anything outdoes the awesome series, and then it's most likley going to be another parody series.

i actually liked the awesome things the first couple of times, but now its just gone on forever.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: mishkamash on November 25, 2008 01:55 PM
fuck off whoever u are

god damnit
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 25, 2008 01:56 PM
its ego's fault that its gotten this out of hand

if he ever made good on his promise to make something other than "awesome" bullshit he might actually have a chance at positively influencing all the morons who copy him
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: SnawsBall on November 25, 2008 02:01 PM
Eh, too much gay shit has been happening since I have been gone.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: D-Mac on November 25, 2008 03:16 PM
I do at least like that he's not doing sprite movies anymore, but I didn't think this was a good idea from the start.
Resubmitting it was of course, an even worse idea.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 25, 2008 04:52 PM
Quote from: f0d
its ego's fault that its gotten this out of hand

if he ever made good on his promise to make something other than "awesome" bullshit he might actually have a chance at positively influencing all the morons who copy him
There really is something to this, that I don't think people who say "Let them do their own thing" understand.  People will look up to other people, and there is no denying that.  Artists who branch out in various ideas, themes, and mediums will inspire people.  And artists who don't will have just as much impact.

But on a side note I don't give a shit about the Awesome films and I won't watch this one either.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: MRat on November 25, 2008 05:26 PM
I think that we should just f
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 25, 2008 05:44 PM
Current Score

3.96 / 5.00 (- 0.0027)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: jjjjjjjjjj on November 25, 2008 05:52 PM
gay
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 25, 2008 08:03 PM
Quote from: Davebut
Quote from: f0d
its ego's fault that its gotten this out of hand

if he ever made good on his promise to make something other than "awesome" bullshit he might actually have a chance at positively influencing all the morons who copy him
There really is something to this, that I don't think people who say "Let them do their own thing" understand.  People will look up to other people, and there is no denying that.  Artists who branch out in various ideas, themes, and mediums will inspire people.  And artists who don't will have just as much impact.

But on a side note I don't give a shit about the Awesome films and I won't watch this one either.
i know ego lurks here too i hope he reads us talking shit about him!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: sQueef on November 25, 2008 08:06 PM
he read something someone said about why doesnt he not make awesome shit one time, and i think his reply was something along the lines of "no matter what I say I am going to get ignored/flamed" instead of answering why he doesn't stop with the awesome shit.

cmon egoraptor can't you handle a little gay ass text! answer us faggot
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 25, 2008 10:20 PM
Quote from: Squeef
he read something someone said about why doesnt he not make awesome shit one time, and i think his reply was something along the lines of "no matter what I say I am going to get ignored/flamed" instead of answering why he doesn't stop with the awesome shit.
yeah thats right! i remember now

i honestly wouldnt flame him i just want to hear his rationale.

did he do it for the money? or is he under too much pressure from his fans to deliver exclusively videogame related shit? does he care what kind of effect he's having on the NG userbase, attracting a much younger and more nerdy audience? does he shy away from criticism in favor of mindless praise or would he actually like to hear the honest opinions of his fellow artists? as the most popular author currently active on NG, why not lead by example and create something high quality and entirely original? i know he has the talent to do so
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: mishkamash on November 26, 2008 03:39 AM
ego needs to see this

it's kinda heartwarming =')
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ansel on November 26, 2008 03:24 PM
dear egoraptor

i would like your movies a lot if your fans weren't such faggots

sincerely, ansel
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: psi43 on November 26, 2008 04:06 PM
at least more and more people are giving these awesome movies low review scores, saying that they should leave it to ego, when it's made by someone else or saying that it's getting boring, when it's made by ego.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 26, 2008 04:08 PM
Its like Egoraptor is becoming more and more like Illwillpress each day.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: MRat on November 26, 2008 07:08 PM
Quote from: Davebut
Its like Egoraptor is becoming more and more like Illwillpress each day.

He was already IllWill from Day 1
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: funzop on November 26, 2008 08:41 PM
Quote from: ansel
dear egoraptor

i would like your movies a lot if your fans weren't such faggots

sincerely, ansel

no, its not quite blunt enough
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: shura on November 26, 2008 09:26 PM
Quote from: f0d
Quote from: Squeef
he read something someone said about why doesnt he not make awesome shit one time, and i think his reply was something along the lines of "no matter what I say I am going to get ignored/flamed" instead of answering why he doesn't stop with the awesome shit.
yeah thats right! i remember now

i honestly wouldnt flame him i just want to hear his rationale.

did he do it for the money? or is he under too much pressure from his fans to deliver exclusively videogame related shit? does he care what kind of effect he's having on the NG userbase, attracting a much younger and more nerdy audience? does he shy away from criticism in favor of mindless praise or would he actually like to hear the honest opinions of his fellow artists? as the most popular author currently active on NG, why not lead by example and create something high quality and entirely original? i know he has the talent to do so

maybe he just likes to make parodies. everyone has their own style of art and what they like to do.

im sure he's open to all criticism, both positive and negative. all artists are, aren't they? that's how artists learn and improve

im also sure that he probably can do something high-quality/original, but maybe he just makes these movies for fun. maybe he creates parodies because he loves videogames and gets enjoyment from parodying them. what's wrong with doing something you love for the sake of your own enjoyment?
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 26, 2008 10:45 PM
I once met a painter who only painted cows.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: notorious on November 26, 2008 11:03 PM
Quote from: f0d
its ego's fault that its gotten this out of hand

if he ever made good on his promise to make something other than "awesome" bullshit he might actually have a chance at positively influencing all the morons who copy him

the only thing he ever did that was not a fucking gay video game parody or having to do with video games with completely 'zany' voices was this halloween animation he made like 3 years ago which was ok
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: MRat on November 26, 2008 11:55 PM
Quote from: Sashura
maybe he just likes to make parodies. everyone has their own style of art and what they like to do.

im sure he's open to all criticism, both positive and negative. all artists are, aren't they? that's how artists learn and improve

im also sure that he probably can do something high-quality/original, but maybe he just makes these movies for fun. maybe he creates parodies because he loves videogames and gets enjoyment from parodying them. what's wrong with doing something you love for the sake of your own enjoyment?


Maybe this is true, but from reading all the things he posts, and his responses to people and their criticisms like reviews on the Awesome movies, it's pretty hard to believe.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 26, 2008 11:56 PM
Lmao
"im sure he's open to all criticism, both positive and negative. all artists are, aren't they?"
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: MRat on November 26, 2008 11:56 PM
There is nothing wrong with saying fuck you to everyone and doing what you want. The thing is, you're not allowed to get pissed off when people call you out on it. You make the choice, you deal with the consequences which in this case are negative opinions. The mature response isn't to argue with your critics, it's to listen, say ok, and either take or don't but let that be that.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 26, 2008 11:57 PM
they don't have to be open to criticism, so they aren't
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: CoolDrMoney on November 27, 2008 12:29 AM
He's an overated one trick pony thats inspiring equally gay if not more gay shit while detracting from other more deserving artists

He has yet to prove otherwise and clearly indicates he doesnt really care to do so
Anyone can do what ego does and they have already shown it

Ego is nothing and yet he's treated as if he's something
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 27, 2008 01:33 AM
(http://briandeer.com/sexual-disorder.jpg)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ansel on November 27, 2008 11:07 AM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
He's an overated one trick pony thats inspiring equally gay if not more gay shit while detracting from other more deserving artists

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4091/frk2gf9.png)





(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/110/fukbx7.png)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 27, 2008 11:28 AM
mm ClearText is beautiful aint it
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: mishkamash on November 27, 2008 11:30 AM
looks like turd with an attempt of shading or some sort of shit
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: emanhattan on November 27, 2008 11:38 AM
Quote from: Sashura
im sure he's open to all criticism, both positive and negative. all artists are, aren't they? that's how artists learn and improve

im also sure that he probably can do something high-quality/original, but maybe he just makes these movies for fun. maybe he creates parodies because he loves videogames and gets enjoyment from parodying them. what's wrong with doing something you love for the sake of your own enjoyment?

Egoraptor doesnt make significant improvements in his artwork at all really. his fbf is still good for me but how hard can it be if your character has nearly no detail?

He certailnly can do better stuff, he is never going to do it because it doesnt pay off.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: shura on November 27, 2008 03:20 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
He's an overated one trick pony thats inspiring equally gay if not more gay shit while detracting from other more deserving artists

He has yet to prove otherwise and clearly indicates he doesnt really care to do so
Anyone can do what ego does and they have already shown it

Ego is nothing and yet he's treated as if he's something

true, but i don't think it's really his fault that ppl like his stuff. most of his fans, (and the majority of ng users) are young and love stupid goofy stuff like that, especially if it's about videogames. i think that most people just come to ng looking for a quick laugh, not anything artsy or creative. =/

Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 27, 2008 04:12 PM
(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000I8U7.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Cambo on November 27, 2008 05:34 PM
EVEN IF he's just making video game parodies for popularity...

EVEN IF he's not even a great animator...

EVEN IF he's a one trick pony...

EVEN IF he's running this series into the ground...

EVEN IF his cartoons are way more popular than other, more talented artists...


[size=]WHO CARES[/size]



Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 27, 2008 05:37 PM
We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn
(http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/burning_flag.jpg)



I think people care because he is a faggot and we all know how much god hates fags
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: LordZeebmork on November 27, 2008 06:25 PM
Quote from: Sashura
im sure he's open to all criticism, both positive and negative. all artists are, aren't they?
[size=]ahahahahhahahaahahhahahahaha hahhahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahaaaaa[/size]

no

anyway fuck egoraptor if I ever see his shit in judgement I'm opening tor and mass 0ing like fuck
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: shura on November 27, 2008 06:38 PM
Quote from: LordZeebmork
Quote from: Sashura
im sure he's open to all criticism, both positive and negative. all artists are, aren't they?
[size=]ahahahahhahahaahahhahahahaha hahhahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahaaaaa[/size]

no


well shit. that's pretty sad =/
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ansel on November 27, 2008 08:20 PM
Quote from: Zekey
(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000I8U7.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/filmnetwork/images/galleries/A4009925/5.jpg)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 01:00 AM
Quote from: ansel
Quote from: Zekey
(http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000I8U7.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/filmnetwork/images/galleries/A4009925/5.jpg)

(http://boingboing.net/images/sheenaisaparasit.jpg)
(http://www.academyleader.com/erikvidal/photos/RubberJohnnyScreenShot.jpg)
(http://sneakmove.com/images/rubberjohnny.jpg)
(http://skatefairy.com/rubber%20john.jpg)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: anigen on November 28, 2008 07:13 AM
i like zekey's signature the green guy is hilariously obnoxious looking
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: MRat on November 28, 2008 09:51 AM
Quote from: anibutt
i like zekey's signature the green guy is hilariously obnoxious looking
play animal crossing
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: anigen on November 28, 2008 10:19 AM
Quote from: MRat
Quote from: anibutt
i like zekey's signature the green guy is hilariously obnoxious looking
play animal crossing

oh it IS animal crossing

ok i assumed it was from a video game
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Thor on November 28, 2008 11:47 AM
"Hi I'm Egoraptor. Instead of responding to criticisms with a well thought out justification of why I do what I do, I'm just going to hurl out personal insults because, hey, I'm awesome."
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: DrRumack on November 28, 2008 12:04 PM
Quote from: anibutt
Quote from: MRat
Quote from: anibutt
i like zekey's signature the green guy is hilariously obnoxious looking
play animal crossing

oh it IS animal crossing

ok i assumed it was from a video game
I've tried so hard to forget animal crossing and the characters I'm killing on the inside by not playing it anymore that I didn't realize either
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 12:10 PM
The reason I don't explain myself is because you guys don't care what I have to say, you'll still hate me regardless. If not for what I believe, then for that comment about how you'll react, which would prove my point anyway. But, I'll give you guys some of my reasoning for which to maybe help you understand why I am who I am if you're genuinely interested. This will be long.

Most of the users here make such a big stink, and your primary reasoning is because I'm supposedly influencing artists poorly, etc etc etc. When I go to Newgrounds I see more and more well done, fantastic pieces than last year, and the year before that. As much as a pull I may have on Newgrounds I don't think any amount of influence will sway the minds of all of these amazing artists who just want to create what's in their heads. I remember a time where Adam Phillips was the bar, but you can find tons of animations on Newgrounds way more graphically impressive, creative, and a thousand times more well written than Brakenwood now (not that I dislike Brakenwood, I love Phillips and all of his work).

If we're talking about my influence here, well, everybody starts somewhere. Rtil himself started by drawing fanart from video games, and now look at him, you all respect him in one way or another, and he's a fantastic artist, but you can still see that influence he's gotten from anime and video game art in his work.

I get PMs every day and a lot of them are from kids who say I've influenced them to start animating. And, you know, yeah, a lot of them are 12 or 13, a lot of them can't draw that well, and a lot of them are going to make stupid video game parodies, but everybody starts somewhere, and I can't imagine after 7 years of animating, video game parodies are going to be the only thing under their belts. I started with writing fanfiction for Mega Man, and people ate that shit up, but it wasn't satisfying, I moved on, I have more original stories than ever and I'm always writing them and improving them.

And yes, I claimed I was working on original stuff, and yes, I still am. Those things take time. Awesome cartoons, admittedly, yes, don't take that much time. I am doing so much every single day on a regular basis, in the way of work, that I need to prioritize what I work on, what I don't, etc. I'm working on launching a website that will need tons of original content at launch and I'm the only person in charge of doing that, so none of that has seen the light of day.

But there is a lot of my original content that I still have cold feet about, and I feel like if I dive in right now, it'll consume everything I do, I'll never get anything done, and I'll end up spending way too much time on a project that I can't afford to do that with. And believe me, I'd love to do that. If I had a spare 2 years to work on an epic masterpiece, I would do that shit in a heartbeat. But I don't have money in my family, and I need to pay my own bills and save with my own money to move to a place where I can actually further my career in everything I do. I have people depending on me, I have payments to make, and that shit isn't easy to just say "fuck it" to in the name of creative expression. I wish it were easier. At least I am making some money doing something I enjoy instead of working a dead end job doing something I hate. I consider the latter more "selling out" than getting paid for something you love.

Right now I've found myself in making games, I'm working on 2 right now, and I can say with complete confidence that they both contain the best animation work I've ever done in my entire life, all things considered. One contains stories, characters and game design I've completely designed from the ground up, the other contains character designs completely by me and stories and game design I've co-developed. I've found so much passion for working on these games I've pulled several days where I'll just work nonstop from waking to sleep, and believe me I've spared no expense in the quality of the visuals and game design. Shading, outline work, it's all done to the best of my ability to meet very particular personal standards. I'm so beaming with pride for both of them I can't wait to show off even 2% of the completed work I've done for them to get people excited.

The way I see it, the awesome series allows me to do all of this. If I had started out by making all of my original ideas, and what not, I don't think I'd be in a better position now. I'd probably be working a side job that I hate, trying to pay my bills, without even an ambition to move out, being discouraged by all the negativity in my life. I wouldn't know half the people I do, I wouldn't have discovered my passion for game designing, I wouldn't have had nearly as many awesome experiences. The bottom line is that I love gaming and it is something that inspires me to a huge degree, and being able to publicly appreciate it in a manner that people enjoy is just so motivating. Not motivating to just continue to make sloppy parodies, but to further myself as an artist, as a person, and as an entertainer. People say the awesome series influences me to continue to just be unoriginal, but it's really the complete opposite. I've learned so much from this journey not just about myself but about others, the field I'm going in to, artforms, expression... just... everything.

And you know, maybe my life would be better if I had started out on Newgrounds a different way, but that's something I'll never know. My life is what it is now, and I'm extremely happy with what it's been shaping into. I've been given more oppurtunities than ever to do the things I want and express myself in ways I didn't even think possible. I remember a time where all of my original ideas were pipedreams, and I had to convince myself that finding a "real job" was the only possibility for living a decent life, but now everything that's in my head is just a tablet pen swipe away from existing, and that feeling is very fulfilling.

If there's one thing I've learned above all others is that actions speak louder than words. I really don't like explaining myself in general so much because things change, people change, words change. You know, I've said before the awesome series is "over" but... things changed. Everybody isn't a character in a novel, people have bad days, good days, things influence you. I am continuing to make awesome movies, but it's not the only thing I'm making anymore. I've prioritized my time to continue to make them among other projects.

And yes, there is obviously a sense of obligation to the fact that fans want more, there is money involved, etc etc, but at least it's not something I hate doing, and at least it's something that several million people enjoy. I can think of much worse things a person can do than entertain millions of people for money. Through it all, I've had my ups and downs, but it's something I seriously do not take for granted. During the time I worked for MTV, the awesome cartoons to me were fleeting and vapid. It was a job, and I was unsatisfied with what I did, and I just wanted to get it done. After it blew up so much, it just opened my eyes to how important it is to people, and that is very meanigful to me. I feel it's a duty to continue to entertain them, and you know, maybe that's wrong, but it doesn't consume me, it's simply one part of me, and it's a part of me that dosn't conflict with my other ideals. Everybody has duties, even if it's something as simple as washing the dishes, but those kinds of things don't stand in the way of your integrity, it's just another part of your life.

Above all I think some of you just need to look at things from a different perspective. You say what I do on Newgrounds makes people think that they can just bank on video game parodies or something, but the countless PMs I get tell a different story. Some fans see the awesome series as something they could never obtain... a level of quality that they only wish they could rise to. And yes, I'm sure to you all that sounds incredibly stupid, but just think about that feeling these fans must have... it's the complete opposite of what you're saying I'm influencing people to do... it gives them goals, hopes, and the motivation to create. I really don't wanna sound like I'm talking myself up to be a God or something fucking stupid like that, but I'm just saying that a lot of you are looking at this whole situation from an incredibley one sided perspective. Just because you see something in my movies doesn't mean somebody else isn't seeing something completely different. And I'm not just being airheaded about this, the kind of feedback I get on a regular basis supporting what I'm saying is astounding.

I said before I hate explaining myself which seems pretty contradictory to this entire post, and honestly I don't know why I felt the need to finally come out and say something. I know most of what I've said will either be lambasted or misinterpreted or ignored, and I fully expect that out of anything I say defending myself. I guess I just did this for me, because all this stuff you guys say does get to me sometimes, and I need to reassure myself that if I just need to keep working hard at my dreams. If I may be harsh, here, you guys say things about trying to save animation, or improving the quality of Newgrounds, but by constantly spamming, complaining, bickering, and generally spreading negativity, you're just furthering the idea that everybody can't get along, and so many relationships, friendships, and projects fall apart because of shit like that. I have worked with some incredibley talented people, and I have learned so much from them and they have learned things from me. It's just a good feeling seeing and experiencing artists helping artists, but the kind of rude things some of you say and do have absolutely no positive influence on anything aside from making people angry and spiteful. I've wanted to be a regular contributor on this forum for a long time, and yeah, I lurk it a bit, but I've decided I would never contribute, because I know anything I ever do here in the way of expressing myself or learning would not even make up for the negativity I would be soaking up every second. That kind of shit gets to you, and starts shaping who you are. I don't want to be an angry, judgmental person. I just want to create what I want to create, smile, laugh, and have a great time with life. Sometimes that kind of stuff takes a lot of work to do, but it's something I'm willing to work hard for.

And maybe that last paragraph is being judgmental, but from what I've seen here, a lot of the users here haven't given me a reason to believe otherwise. You may all be saints, but I haven't seen any of those traits come out publicly.

When it comes down to it, it's just a measurement of ideals. Some people believe in fucking... sacrificing virgins to the Sun God or some shit. I don't, but I'm not going to crusade around trying to convince people it's wrong just because I believe it is. My beliefs and my ideals are something I choose to live by and it helps make my own life good. My decisions and my mistakes are my own to make and live with. I've said I don't believe in being so negative about things, but if that's your way of life, then feel free, I'm just going to choose not to associate myself with you, you know? This is another reason I'm not too caught up in trying to convince you guys of me being right because it's just a waste of my breath (or finger strength, I guess lol) to try to push my belief structures on another person. If you don't like it, you don't like it. This has nothing to do with criticism. I am always open to criticism, but when the criticism is "Egoraptor is a faggot" I'm usually inclined to ignore it.

If you got this far, thank you.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: psi43 on November 28, 2008 01:01 PM
ok i read the whole post there and well opinion of you hasnt changed a bit. that is because i dont dislike you though, ever since we talked on aim the first time (psi43, btw have you blocked me or something??).

i agree with pretty much everything you said besides the thing with the "well if you think i am destroying ng and the animation future then take a look at yourselves spamming". some people here (faggots like zeebmork and davebut) are spamming gay shit like blank screens cause they're simply bored and don't have a life, they act like they don't care about NG and just want to read funny reviews.

then there are people like rtil and f0d, people who actually animate something attacking newgrounds, but as i said, they attack newgrounds and not the animation business in general, because they think that newgrounds is going down. i know that this won't help NG improving but oh well it's fun. just as much fun as it is to animate and release "AWESOME" cartoons probably.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: anigen on November 28, 2008 01:08 PM
i just think everyone whines too much
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 01:12 PM
There are fun animations and everything but it's never just that, it's rants and posts and comments, too. Rtil animates things criticizing Newgrounds and they're fun and most of the time funny but he's also a major asshole at times because of the same ideology.

But again, that's just how I see it. You guys might see it differently, really believe in the rants and comments and stuff, but I'm just letting you know how I feel and what I believe.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: psi43 on November 28, 2008 01:16 PM
well that's cause rtil is rtil

can't explain that
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 01:47 PM
longest post ever?

you decide
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: CoolDrMoney on November 28, 2008 02:03 PM
Holy cow ego raptor you win jus dont make a post that long ever again dam!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: CoolDrMoney on November 28, 2008 02:13 PM
Quote from: egoraptor
There are fun animations and everything but it's never just that, it's rants and posts and comments, too. Rtil animates things criticizing Newgrounds and they're fun and most of the time funny but he's also a major asshole at times because of the same ideology.

But again, that's just how I see it. You guys might see it differently, really believe in the rants and comments and stuff, but I'm just letting you know how I feel and what I believe.
If no one says anything then nothing will happen. Id like to think were at least helping balance things out. Its all fine and good if youre doing it just for fun, but when you notice something you probably didnt put a whole lot of effort into get like in the fuckin top 50, anyone with any kind of integrity would go "woah what the fuck is wrong with you guys" not embrace it and continue to make more shitty shit. But most really popular "artists" lack that on NG so whatevs.

Also I didnt read your post before because no fuckin way am I readin all dat!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 02:17 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
Quote from: egoraptor
There are fun animations and everything but it's never just that, it's rants and posts and comments, too. Rtil animates things criticizing Newgrounds and they're fun and most of the time funny but he's also a major asshole at times because of the same ideology.

But again, that's just how I see it. You guys might see it differently, really believe in the rants and comments and stuff, but I'm just letting you know how I feel and what I believe.
If no one says anything then nothing will happen. Id like to think were at least helping balance things out. Its all fine and good if youre doing it just for fun, but when you notice something you probably didnt put a whole lot of effort into get like in the fuckin top 50, anyone with any kind of integrity would go "woah what the fuck is wrong with you guys" not embrace it and continue to make more shitty shit. But most really popular "artists" lack that on NG so whatevs.

Also I didnt read your post before because no fuckin way am I readin all dat!

Well I did address what you just said in that text wall so it's up to you whether or not you wanna see what I had to say.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: GFC on November 28, 2008 02:19 PM
uhhhhh I haven't got a clue what's going on here but egoraptor isn't being unreasonable. Good luck to him and all that!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 28, 2008 02:22 PM
can't believe i just read all that

the last few paragraphs were very redundant but otherwise it was nothing unexpected

basically boiled down to exactly what sashura was saying, you make what you want to make because thats what you enjoy making

look, clearly you have a much less jaded perspective on newgrounds than the rest of us. you've spent your entire time on NG making animations designed specifically to please a certain niche audience, while most of us have spent our time there trying to anger and incite this same audience. but we're more alike than your last few paragraphs indicate. we both make flash for the same reason: we get a kick out of the reaction.

you like to please people, make them laugh, and inspire them to animate. we like to piss people off, make them angry, and inspire them to write hilarious negative reviews (or, in this case, inspire them to write 10 page essays justifying their actions  ). our negativity is rooted in the inherent negativity of the typical NG fan: we bring out the worst in them. to use cynicism and biting sarcasm to make people mad is far more enjoyable than being open, friendly and appeasing. read the reviews on metal gear funnies and you'll know what i'm talking about. for us, negativity is a positive. none of us are really assholes in real life, we just enjoy getting a rise out of people over pointless shit on the internet. why? because its funny as fuck.

as for your original work, im glad to hear it's at least in development and you weren't giving up on it or, worse, lying about it entirely. and you're absolutely right that if you had started out making original work on NG, you wouldn't be where you are today. its a fact that NG's audience doesn't appreciate originality as much as they appreciate cheap laughs. but isn't that wrong? isn't originality a positive trait? sure, you can use videogame references all you want, that's your personal choice. but wouldn't it be BETTER to make something that appeals not ONLY to your fanbase but also to a wider, more mainstream audience? something that people over the age of 25 would appreciate, for instance? wouldn't it be more fulfilling to use the popularity you gained by referencing others' work to bolster your own original ideas and concepts? isn't that what you plan on doing eventually? why not START NOW?

i'm sure you'll find an audience that is receptive to WHATEVER you submit because your popularity is so astronomical at this point. i'd just love to see you do something fresh and quit beating the dead horse, regardless of how alive it seems.

the only thing more satisfying than pleasing millions of people is pleasing your most ardent critics
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ansel on November 28, 2008 02:24 PM
I read the whole thing. I'm actually really surprised you wrote such an in-depth and meaningful response, when in the past your responses to criticism of this variety have been largely flippant. While I'm not sure how much of it you meant sincerely and how much of it was stock apology/rebuttal, it was nice to see you take the time to really explain what motivates you. I do believe you make these cartoons more for personal enjoyment than for the fame and money they bring you, but there's still the nagging feeling that you're using your fame and fans to take away from others. I don't blame you for how your fans act, but I do blame you for pandering to their wants and continuing to make Awesome flashes after you vowed not to. This may seem like I'm merely repeating what I've said before (which I am) but to me they're very meaningful concerns.

I really hope I haven't seemed condescending or dismissive-- if there's one thing I hate, it's when people take the tone of "oh, if only you'd apply your skill to something I like!" I don't really feel like I can say anything that hasn't been said already, but... :C
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: GFC on November 28, 2008 02:30 PM
lmaol this pic (http://www.thebackalleys.com/forum/uploads/av-856.png) is what i imagine jellyr00ls to look like
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 28, 2008 02:30 PM
Quote from: GrndClock
lmaol this pic (http://www.thebackalleys.com/forum/uploads/av-856.png) is what i imagine jellyr00ls to look like
i miss that kid :(
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: CoolDrMoney on November 28, 2008 02:35 PM
I cant believe I read all that only to find out that I was right to begin with.

Anyway most people your age and my age have bills to pay, but Id rather work at a job that I may or may not like to pay those bills while I work on something with effort and passion rather then get paid to make shitty vg parodies that are plagerized art in every sense. The fact that you have fun making them is proof enough about my statement on your integrity.

You say youre inspiring people to animate and shit with your work. But what are you inspiring them TO animate.

Anyway Ill believe it when I see it with the original work. If you actually make somethin nice then I GARUNTEE you people here will respect you more. Unless it really really dsucks. but if its animated really nicely has some effort put into itt hen ye sure.

Anyway point in all of this is that Im pretty gay for talkin about all dis and actually reading all that shit!

Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 28, 2008 02:39 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
Anyway point in all of this is that Im pretty gay for talkin about all dis and actually reading all that shit!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: wolf on November 28, 2008 02:51 PM
What's this? What's this?
There's color everywhere
What's this?
There's white things in the air
What's this?
I can't believe my eyes
I must be dreaming
Wake up, Jack, this isn't fair
What's this?

What's this? What's this?
There's something very wrong
What's this?
There's people singing songs

What's this?
The streets are lined with
Little creatures laughing
Everybody seems so happy
Have I possibly gone daffy?
What is this?
What's this?

There's children throwing snowballs
Instead of throwing heads
They're busy building toys
And absolutely no one's dead

There's frost on every window
Oh, I can't believe my eyes
And in my bones I feel the warmth
That's coming from inside

Oh, look
What's this?
They're hanging mistletoe, they kiss
Why that looks so unique, inspired
They're gathering around to hear a story
Roasting chestnuts on a fire
What's this?
What's this?


In here they've got a little tree, how queer
And who would ever think
And why?

They're covering it with tiny little things
They've got electric lights on strings
And there's a smile on everyone
So, now, correct me if I'm wrong
This looks like fun
This looks like fun
Oh, could it be I got my wish?
What's this?

Oh my, what now?
The children are asleep
But look, there's nothing underneath
No ghouls, no witches here to scream and scare them
Or ensnare them, only little cozy things
Secure them in their dreamland
What's this?

The monsters are all missing
And the nightmares can't be found
And in their place there seems to be
Good feeling all around

Instead of screams, I swear
I can hear music in the air
The smell of cakes and pies
Are absolutely everywhere

The sights, the sounds
They're everywhere and all around
I've never felt this good before
This empty place inside of me has been filling up
I simply cannot get enough

I want it, oh, I want it
Oh, I want it for my own
I've got to know
I've got to know
What is this place that I have found?
What is this?
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: texas on November 28, 2008 02:56 PM
egoraptor seems like a nice and practical guy from what ive seen so i dont mind him  
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: shura on November 28, 2008 03:03 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
You say youre inspiring people to animate and shit with your work. But what are you inspiring them TO animate.

Yes there are a lot of kids animating in the style of egoraptor, but im sure there are also other people who see his work, and are inspired to animate their own stuff too.

Although im not a flash artist, Rtil's work has inspired me tremendously to try my hand at animating. I love his art and his style, but that doesn't mean im going to copy it. I have my own style of drawing. Rtil did nothing buy open my eyes to it. i bet it's the same way for other people that see ego's stuff too.

Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 03:08 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
Anyway most people your age and my age have bills to pay, but Id rather work at a job that I may or may not like to pay those bills while I work on something with effort and passion rather then get paid to make shitty vg parodies that are plagerized art in every sense. The fact that you have fun making them is proof enough about my statement on your integrity.

This is where I heartily disagree, for points I've mostly already said, but I am learning a lot more about animation, comedic timing, color theory and all of that from animating shitty video game parodies that are plagiarized art in every way than I would working at McDonalds. I think if you're going to waste time making money, waste it efficiently.

And I really don't see why the shitty job scenario is any different. I am still working on my original projects on the side just as passionately. See, I think your view is very narrow minded because you're assuming that by enjoying making a video game parody I am incapable of feeling artistic integrity about something original and fresh. As if, if instead I hated doing it, but I had to in order to live, it'd be okay. Like I said, it's only a part of me that doesn't consume who I am. If you really liked that side job as a programmer or whatever, does that make you incapable of feeling integrity? Moreover, if you get a hired animation job with some company making some stupid Winx show or whatever, and you had to just to pay the bills, and hey, maybe you found out it was fun to do, does that make you incapable of feeling integrity for your original work?

I mean, most of you who want to become animators in the future, your plan is to work under a company, right? You're not just going to make original animations and hope someday they take off, you have a plan. So how is that different, at all? So, because you don't like it so much, it makes you more passionate about your original work?

We are human beings, we're not 1 dimensional programmed robots. I enjoy a Burger King Whopper and I enjoy Filet Mignon. And sometimes I want a Whopper over a filet. I don't have to be super passionate about filet mignon just because it's better and had more effort put into it.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: DrRumack on November 28, 2008 03:16 PM
you know
it would be really interesting to see a bit of what you are working on, if it's not unreasonable
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 03:23 PM
Quote from: MrScriblam
you know
it would be really interesting to see a bit of what you are working on, if it's not unreasonable

I am super excited about it so I think I would be okay with showing you a sneak preview (it's pretty early on development-wise so I don't wanna release stuff that doesn't end up making it), but I am not at home right now. If I remember I'll post something up when I get back.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 03:24 PM
Hello I'm ZekeySpaceyLizard
Much like F00d and Raptor I too have some very important things to get off my chest on a public internet forum so here they go:

Animation is like most introductory PDE courses spend a great deal of time investigating solutions  using separation of variables, a powerful method that is good to know for studies in theoretical physics is the method of eigenfunction expansion. This method is useful because in many cases, equations cannot be solved using separation of variables. To understand the method, in what follows you can think in terms of expanding the function which solves the equation in a Fourier series. We then solve mode by mode-turning a single partial differential equation into a set of elementary ordinary differential equations that can be solved by inspection. Rather than trying to explain the techniques in words or with difficult to understand abstract theorems, let’s demonstrate how to use the method with two concrete examples.
(http://www.dearborn-sausage.com/catalog/images/boneless_ham.jpg)
In our first attempt to tackle the method of eigenfunction expansion, we will consider a standard example from quantum mechanics, a particle trapped in an infinite square well of width a. Inside the well, the potential is zero and therefore the Schrodinger equation is written as
For this problem we will take . The particle cannot be found outside the boundaries, therefore the boundary conditions for the problem are
(http://www.molblog.nl/Merken/images/upload/1140113000ugly_man.jpg)
As can be seen in any standard quantum mechanics text like Griffiths, this problem is easily solved using separation of variables. While that elementary option is available in this case, we will use the method of eigenfunction expansion so that we can demonstrate the method using a simple equation.
The first step is to identify a differential operator L that can be used to solve an eigenvalue equation. In problems that involve space and time, its  a good bet to choose spatial derivative operators as L. In this case the choice is immediately obvious. We let f.


But see the thing about newgrounds is We denote the eigenfunctions of L by  and the eigenvalues by . The eigenvalue equation is then written as For convenience, we set  (the reader can later verify that this would follow automatically). The differential equation to be solved is then written as This part of the solution will be familiar to those who have had quantum mechanics. Basically, we are solving the time-independent Schrodinger equation. Students will no doubt recognize the above equation as the harmonic oscillator equation with solutions
(http://www.dnr.sc.gov/marine/mrri/acechar/specgal/image/photos/terrapin.jpg)
The boundary conditions in the problem tell us that. This applies to the eigenfunctions as well. Therefore, we find that Now since , this means that . Next we apply the second boundary condition, . This gives In quantum theory, the constants can be found using normalization. However that isn’t necessary to understand the solution method being explored here, so we will ignore it from here on out. The reader familiar with quantum theory will also note that the eigenvalues  are related to the energy.


But Tom Fulp well...

Tom Fulp often et’s equate both terms from the left hand side and the right hand side. The Schrodinger equation becomes We now have two series expansions using the same eigenfunctions that are equal, therefore each individual term in the series on the left must equal the corresponding term on the right. This means that the coefficient functions satisfy the following ordinary differential equation

Normally, the constant of integration would be determined using initial conditions stated in the problem. In this case once again normalization determines the constants in this problem. We will ignore what those values are and simply write the solution, which is
(http://www.gidesigns.net/images/copper_finials_fence.jpg)
We will follow the same procedure used in the first example. First we identify a differential operator L and eigenfunctions  such that
The are numbers called eigenvalues whose form we will determine. Once we have the eigenfunctions, we write f in a series expansion then plug it into the differential equation, and solve mode by mode for the coefficient functions .  Let’s see how to apply the method to the equation we are trying to solve in this case. We have . Looking at the right hand side, we see that the differential operator (acting with respect to x) iswith      . Now, since we are only dealing with a function of a single variable x, we can write the equation in terms of ordinary derivatives. Moving all terms to the right hand side, we obtain the familiar simple harmonic oscillator equation From our knowledge of the sin function, we know that this can only be true if the argument is an integer. This is why we have labeled the eigenvalues with the subscript as . Let’s call that integer n, and so we have Putting this together with , we conclude that the eigenfunctions of the given differential operator and stated boundary conditions are  with eigenvalues
The next step is to write  in an eigenfunction expansion, absorbing the time dependence into the coefficients of the expansion. With , we can write We changed to ordinary derivatives because the coefficient functions are functions of t only. Next we consider the second derivative with respect to x in the first term on the right hand side. Using the same procedure, we have The remaining term on the right hand side, , is the forcing function which we denote . Generally we can expand the forcing function in an eigenfunction expansion, using the same eigenfunctions but different coefficients. That is So we see that  and all other terms are zero. This greatly simplifies the problem. Now let’s put everything together. Using the eigenfunction expansions of each term, we have rewritten the PDE in the following way We need one more piece of the puzzle-the initial conditions. Looking at the problem statement, we were told that . Comparing this with , we conclude that the initial conditions applied to the coefficient functions of the expansion gives us . Since setting in , we conclude that  Also remember that the only nonzero forcing term is . So this leaves two equations to solve. The first is Foamy the Squirrel

The internet sometimes runs on a loop where The last piece of the puzzle is to solve the equation involving the forcing term, where . In this case,  so we need to solve The -16 comes from the expansion, where we had
(http://www.mufkinland.com/who-wants-to-be-a-dumbass.jpg)
The homogeneous equation is With solution , C being the constant of integration. Since the inhomogeneous term is a constant, we guess that the particular solution is also a constant, call it A. So we have tells us that it must be the case that , and so we take . To write down the final solution, we just write down a summation of the non-zero coefficient functions  multiplied by . And so we have Notice it satisfies the initial condition  (set t = 0). What about long term behavior? This is called steady state behavior. We take the limit  and find that the steady state solution is fucking a penguin up its tight asshole


and thats all i have to say on the matter
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 03:25 PM
Quote from: egoraptor
I mean, most of you who want to become animators in the future, your plan is to work under a company, right? You're not just going to make original animations and hope someday they take off, you have a plan. So how is that different, at all? So, because you don't like it so much, it makes you more passionate about your original work?
lmao
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 03:29 PM
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: egoraptor
I mean, most of you who want to become animators in the future, your plan is to work under a company, right? You're not just going to make original animations and hope someday they take off, you have a plan. So how is that different, at all? So, because you don't like it so much, it makes you more passionate about your original work?
lmao

I realize that sounded kind of lame. I wasn't implying that is the only way to go, but that it is a way people commonly think of as the "right" or "safe" or "realistic" one. Making original animations and hoping someday they take off would be phenomenal and it is certainly a sweet goal to aspire to.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: CoolDrMoney on November 28, 2008 03:29 PM
Quote from: egoraptor
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
Anyway most people your age and my age have bills to pay, but Id rather work at a job that I may or may not like to pay those bills while I work on something with effort and passion rather then get paid to make shitty vg parodies that are plagerized art in every sense. The fact that you have fun making them is proof enough about my statement on your integrity.

This is where I heartily disagree, for points I've mostly already said, but I am learning a lot more about animation, comedic timing, color theory and all of that from animating shitty video game parodies that are plagiarized art in every way than I would working at McDonalds. I think if you're going to waste time making money, waste it efficiently.

And I really don't see why the shitty job scenario is any different. I am still working on my original projects on the side just as passionately. See, I think your view is very narrow minded because you're assuming that by enjoying making a video game parody I am incapable of feeling artistic integrity about something original and fresh. As if, if instead I hated doing it, but I had to in order to live, it'd be okay. Like I said, it's only a part of me that doesn't consume who I am. If you really liked that side job as a programmer or whatever, does that make you incapable of feeling integrity? Moreover, if you get a hired animation job with some company making some stupid Winx show or whatever, and you had to just to pay the bills, and hey, maybe you found out it was fun to do, does that make you incapable of feeling integrity for your original work?

I mean, most of you who want to become animators in the future, your plan is to work under a company, right? You're not just going to make original animations and hope someday they take off, you have a plan. So how is that different, at all? So, because you don't like it so much, it makes you more passionate about your original work?

We are human beings, we're not 1 dimensional programmed robots. I enjoy a Burger King Whopper and I enjoy Filet Mignon. And sometimes I want a Whopper over a filet. I don't have to be super passionate about filet mignon just because it's better and had more effort put into it.

You COMPLETELY missed what I said but holy shit if I argue anymore about any of this I will feel really gay

But Ill do it anyway!

The fact you enjoy doing that shit AND you dont tell your viewers theyre retarded for praising you for some shitty thing is why I say you have no integrity. If you rated a whopper the same or even more than a filet Mignon in quality taste etc etc then youd have to be retarded.

Now if I drew some sloppy ass stick figure I thought was FUN then thats fine. If I submitted it to an art museum and it got lauded and praised then I would raise an eyebrow and have INTEGRITY to say to all of them "Its just a stickman. What is wrong with you all? Its fine if you like it but holy shit there's a shitload of better things around here and this really isnt that impressive!" But instead of doing THAT, you make more shit. I for one would feel guilty knowing that Im gettin praise for something half assed while other things that are done MUCH better get passed up over it. You still say you have some AMAZING original project your working on but I have yet to see it and I am almost doubtful it exists.

And Ill tell you right now, I have certainly learned more about animating, color theory, etc from TALKING to people and applying it to animation in my spare time as well as going to college rather than working on some half-assed cartoon, releasing it and being happy about the praise it gets. Its certainly not impossible to learn while you work somewhere else. You dont have to be dependent on the money from NG. People like you and IllWill hungry for more money, using it as funding, exploiting the fantasies that occur in those adolecents minds, is what is keeping Newgrounds from truly developing.

Anyway Im really tired of being this gay so I think Im done. I refuse to talk about this anymore. Who gives a shit
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 28, 2008 03:34 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
you dont tell your viewers theyre retarded for praising you for some shitty thing
actually ive seen ego call out his fans on this before. he has mentioned the fact that his flashes get undue praise due to his immense popularity. ive seen it in comments and news posts.

but ego, if you are working on original projects on the side just as passionately as you work on the awesome stuff, why not make it known?

if you were to send a message to your fanbase that original content holds more value than unoriginal content, you really could make a difference. your fans are an extremely close-minded bunch (again, read the reviews on metal gear funnies for proof) but they fucking worship you and the ground you walk on. if you could change even a few of their minds about what constitutes a quality flash animation, it would be worth it
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 03:36 PM
That fag up there ZekeySpaceyLizard raises a few interesting points.

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Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 03:39 PM
Quote from: egoraptor
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: egoraptor
I mean, most of you who want to become animators in the future, your plan is to work under a company, right? You're not just going to make original animations and hope someday they take off, you have a plan. So how is that different, at all? So, because you don't like it so much, it makes you more passionate about your original work?
lmao

I realize that sounded kind of lame. I wasn't implying that is the only way to go, but that it is a way people commonly think of as the "right" or "safe" or "realistic" one. Making original animations and hoping someday they take off would be phenomenal and it is certainly a sweet goal to aspire to.
you sure about that
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 03:41 PM
Magnetic Navigation By Birds, Animals and Sea Creatures:
One of the first concrete signs that animals can tap into the magnetic field was observed, as in many great discoveries in science, by chance. It was the fall of 1957, and Hans Fromme, a researcher at the Frankfurt Zoological Institute in Germany, noticed that several European robins he kept in a cage were becoming restless and were fluttering up into the southwestern part of the cage. There was nothing unusual about it, it was known that migrating birds in cages become edgy at that time of year, and European robins in Germany migrate southwestwards to Spain to over winter. What made it striking was that the birds were in a shuttered room. They could see neither visual landmarks, nor their fellow, non-captive robins, nor the sun or stars, which were known to serve them as navigational aids. Clearly they were acting on something invisible, and Fromme deduced it must be the Earth's magnetic field.
Careful tests with homing pigeons and other birds displaying the ability to judge direction show that the birds are affected by changing magnetic fields. If birds are released at places where the earth's magnetic field is anomalously strong, their homing ability is entirely disrupted. Magnetic storms do the same.
Numerous experiments undertaken have shown that many living things avail themselves of the magnetic field. Organisms as diverse as hamsters, salamanders, sparrows, rainbow trout, spiny lobsters and bacteria all do it, everything from fruit flies to frogs.
How do we know organisms have this ability? There are some standard methods to test for it. Small coils placed near the birds' heads to create unnatural magnetic fields do disturb the ability of pigeons to find home. In another experiment, 24 blind mole rats were trained to reach a goal box at the end of a complex labyrinth. When all had mastered the task, half the rats were let do it again under the natural field and half under a reversed field. The latter rats' performance fell far short of that achieved by their magnetically unmanipulated fellows.
A step further than the blind mole rat, other animals use the magnetic field like we do the Global Positioning System, to determine their location on the surface of the Earth and using that to negotiate unseen pathways during migration. Kenneth and Catherine Lohmann of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and their team have shown through many experiments that during their 8,000-mile migration around the Atlantic Ocean, young loggerhead sea turtles can detect not only the field's intensity but also its inclination. The turtles use these two pieces of information, which vary at every point on the planet's surface, as navigational markers that help them advance along their migratory route
Geomagnetic Dynamo- A Driving Force for Earth’s Magnetic Field:
Albert Einstein described the problem of the origin of the Earth's magnetic field as being one of the five most important unsolved problems in physics. However it is commonly believed that fluid dynamos in the Earth’s mantle produce the Earth’s magnetic field. We know, from our elementary knowledge of Physics that an electric current passing through a metal wire produces a magnetic field around that wire. Likewise, a wire passing through a magnetic field creates an electric current within the wire. This is the basic principle that allows electric motors and generators to operate.
To understand what's happening, we have to take a trip ... to the center of the Earth where the magnetic field is produced. At the heart of our planet lies a solid iron ball, about as hot as the surface of the sun. Researchers call it "the inner core." It's really a world within a world. The inner core is 70% as wide as the moon. It spins at its own rate, as much as 0.2° of longitude per year faster than the Earth above it, and it has its own ocean: a very deep layer of liquid iron known as "the outer core."
Earth's magnetic field comes from this ocean of iron, which is an electrically conducting fluid in constant motion. Sitting atop the hot inner core, the liquid outer core seethes like water in a pan on a hot stove. The outer core also has "hurricanes"--whirlpools powered by the Coriolis forces of Earth's rotation. These complex motions generate our planet's magnetism and the process called the dynamo effect.
Earth’s Inconstant Magnetic Field:
Scientists have long known that the magnetic pole moves. James Ross located the pole for the first time in 1831 after an exhausting arctic journey during which his ship got stuck in the ice for four years. No one returned until the next century. In 1904, Roald Amundsen found the pole again and discovered that it had moved--at least 50 km since the days of Ross.
There is a good deal of evidence that the Earth's magnetic field does, and has, reversed many times in the Earth's history, but it is very difficult to use this information to directly answer the question of "Why”. Part of the answer to this question lies in the equations of dynamos. For each solution that yields a magnetic field of normal polarity there exists another solution that yields a field of reversed polarity. This argument only allows for the possibility of two separate polarities however, and has not explained the reason that the magnetic poles actually do reverse.

But then, Professor Gary Glatzmaier and Paul Roberts at University of California created a supercomputer model of Earth's interior using the equations of magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), a branch of physics dealing with conducting fluids and magnetic fields. Their software heats the inner core, stirs the metallic ocean above it, and then calculates the resulting magnetic field. They run their code for hundreds of thousands of simulated years and watch what happens. What they see mimics the real Earth. The magnetic field waxes and wanes, poles drift and, occasionally, flip. They learnt that change is normal. The source of the field, the outer core, is itself seething, swirling, turbulent. Professor Glatzmaier noticed that the changes detected on our planet's surface are a sign of that inner chaos.
Therefore, those scientists in the know—palaeomagnetists, to be exact—expect that perhaps sometime in the future, compass needle will start pointing south rather than north. This is not alarming at all. These reversals happen on average only about once every 250,000 years, and they take hundreds of years to complete so species have time to accommodate to the change.
Magnetosphere:
The greatest blessing of geomagnetism is the magnetosphere, the region above the ionosphere in which the magnetic field of the earth has a dominant control over the motions of gas and fast charged particles. In spite of its name, the magnetosphere is quite non-spherical. The boundary of the magnetosphere, “magnetopause”, is roughly bullet shaped. Magnetopause behaves roughly like a droplet of liquid exposed to supersonic flow. The magnetopause will ripple, flap, and sometimes droplets will break off. It is the location where the outward magnetic pressure of the Earth's magnetic field is counterbalanced by the solar wind, a fast outflow of hot plasma from the sun in all directions. Most of the solar particles are deflected to either side of the magnetopause, much like water is deflected before the bow of a ship. However, some particles become trapped within the Earth's magnetic field and form radiation belts. An additional feature is a collision-free bow shock which forms in the solar wind. Bow shock is the boundary at which the solar wind abruptly drops as a result of its approach to the magnetopause. The particles making up the solar wind follow spiral paths along magnetic field lines. The velocity of each particle as it gyrates around a field line can be treated similarly to a thermal velocity in an ordinary gas, and in an ordinary gas, the mean thermal velocity is roughly the speed of sound. At the bow shock, the bulk forward velocity of the wind drops below the speed at which the particles are corkscrewing. We say that the bulk velocity of the fluid,in this case, the solar wind, drops from "supersonic" to "subsonic".
(http://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~marinoni/essay_0.gif)
This means a severe weakening or disappearing of magnetic field would lay us open to the harmful radiations from the sun.
Measuring the Earth’s Magnetic Field:
Measurements of the Earth's magnetic field are continually made around the world at magnetic observatories and data is collected from various oceanographic, land and even satellites surveys. There are two obvious reasons for doing this.
In the study of the Earth's history, very few physical quantities have left any record that can be measured today. The study of seismology and the Earth's gravity field have revealed many secrets about the Earth's interior, but there is no way to examine that how these measurements may have, or are, changing with time. Measurements that can be examined through time are extremely important to make inferences about what the Earth may have been like in the past. Therefore scientists run magnetic surveys to attempt to model what the structure is like beneath the ground. When palaeomagnetists measure the magnetic field, they actually measure a combination of the Earth's background magnetic field and variations that are being caused by near-surface changes in the magnetic properties of the underlying rocks. Many rock types contain sufficient magnetic minerals to produce significant magnetic anomalies.
Magnetic surveying can thus be used for a broad range of applications, from small-scale engineering or archaeological surveys, to large-scale surveys to investigate regional geological structure.
By Muhammad Azeem, (M.Phil) Nanotechnology Lab., Physics Department, Govt. College University Lahore, Pakistan.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: CoolDrMoney on November 28, 2008 03:45 PM
Quote
actually ive seen ego call out his fans on this before. he has mentioned the fact that his flashes get undue praise due to his immense popularity. ive seen it in comments and news posts

Okay well forget wat I said bout dat then!

But I would just stop makin em afterward, thats me though
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 03:54 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
Quote from: egoraptor
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
Anyway most people your age and my age have bills to pay, but Id rather work at a job that I may or may not like to pay those bills while I work on something with effort and passion rather then get paid to make shitty vg parodies that are plagerized art in every sense. The fact that you have fun making them is proof enough about my statement on your integrity.

This is where I heartily disagree, for points I've mostly already said, but I am learning a lot more about animation, comedic timing, color theory and all of that from animating shitty video game parodies that are plagiarized art in every way than I would working at McDonalds. I think if you're going to waste time making money, waste it efficiently.

And I really don't see why the shitty job scenario is any different. I am still working on my original projects on the side just as passionately. See, I think your view is very narrow minded because you're assuming that by enjoying making a video game parody I am incapable of feeling artistic integrity about something original and fresh. As if, if instead I hated doing it, but I had to in order to live, it'd be okay. Like I said, it's only a part of me that doesn't consume who I am. If you really liked that side job as a programmer or whatever, does that make you incapable of feeling integrity? Moreover, if you get a hired animation job with some company making some stupid Winx show or whatever, and you had to just to pay the bills, and hey, maybe you found out it was fun to do, does that make you incapable of feeling integrity for your original work?

I mean, most of you who want to become animators in the future, your plan is to work under a company, right? You're not just going to make original animations and hope someday they take off, you have a plan. So how is that different, at all? So, because you don't like it so much, it makes you more passionate about your original work?

We are human beings, we're not 1 dimensional programmed robots. I enjoy a Burger King Whopper and I enjoy Filet Mignon. And sometimes I want a Whopper over a filet. I don't have to be super passionate about filet mignon just because it's better and had more effort put into it.

You COMPLETELY missed what I said but holy shit if I argue anymore about any of this I will feel really gay

But Ill do it anyway!

The fact you enjoy doing that shit AND you dont tell your viewers theyre retarded for praising you for some shitty thing is why I say you have no integrity. If you rated a whopper the same or even more than a filet Mignon in quality taste etc etc then youd have to be retarded.

Now if I drew some sloppy ass stick figure I thought was FUN then thats fine. If I submitted it to an art museum and it got lauded and praised then I would raise an eyebrow and have INTEGRITY to say to all of them "Its just a stickman. What is wrong with you all? Its fine if you like it but holy shit there's a shitload of better things around here and this really isnt that impressive!" But instead of doing THAT, you make more shit. I for one would feel guilty knowing that Im gettin praise for something half assed while other things that are done MUCH better get passed up over it. You still say you have some AMAZING original project your working on but I have yet to see it and I am almost doubtful it exists.

And Ill tell you right now, I have certainly learned more about animating, color theory, etc from TALKING to people and applying it to animation in my spare time as well as going to college rather than working on some half-assed cartoon, releasing it and being happy about the praise it gets. Its certainly not impossible to learn while you work somewhere else. You dont have to be dependent on the money from NG. People like you and IllWill hungry for more money, using it as funding, exploiting the fantasies that occur in those adolecents minds, is what is keeping Newgrounds from truly developing.

Anyway Im really tired of being this gay so I think Im done. I refuse to talk about this anymore. Who gives a shit

Please! I have admitted time and time again that the art in my animations is nothing to be proud of! But, there is more to it than just the quality of animation, and I am not allowed to be proud of it? So, if I make anything, and then there's something better, I have to reroute people? That's ridiculous. I only finish awesome cartoons that I personally think are funny. They make me laugh, and that's what people like about them. I am not going to have people telling me they're hilarious and then tell them they're stupid and go watch Brakenwood. That's rude, and I don't even believe in that idea. If someone says "hey, the art in this was good!" I blow the whistle, sure, but if someone merely enjoys it, I can't even support that? I enjoy it, myself. I am proud of it. I wouldn't make it if I wasn't.

Who am I to say what is better, anyway? That's just mean to tell people they're stupid for liking my stuff over other stuff, I think. It's their taste.

I disagree with your idea of integrity completely, and I think it uses the same principles that I'm accused of taking advantage of, except backwards.

For example, your Brawl Funnies bit is gut busting, I've seen it like 20 times. I'm sure you made it because you thought it was funny, too, but it's obviously horribly animated. If it all the sudden got popular, you denounce it, saying it's stupid, and not to like it, and go watch something else. I just think that's dishonest. There's more to what we do than the purest of art. We can have fun and allow people to join in our fun, too.

My cartoons aren't being hung up in a museum, they're being shown on Newgrounds.

But you know, you're right, I have feelings of remorse. And I do get feelings of "what the fuck" when somebody 10's Metal Gear Awesome but gives a 4 to like something amazing. But that's just stuff I keep to myself. I don't want to be mean to fans. That's not me. I'm just not a mean guy. I don't believe in telling people what's good and what's not, that's up to them to decide.

You know, I get fanart of awesome Snake, and I say to myself "I am not proud of this" and wish so bad that people would appreciate my own characters and not my 'awesome' stuff, but, you know, all in due time, hopefully. I'm aware of what I'm doing, but I don't believe it's as bad as you do.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 03:58 PM
Quote from: egoraptor
You know, I get fanart of awesome Snake, and I say to myself "I am not proud of this" and wish so bad that people would appreciate my own characters and not my 'awesome' stuff, but, you know, all in due time, hopefully.
don't count on it
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 28, 2008 04:02 PM
Maybe if you posted some art other than the rudhed stuff you make I might regard you as an artist, but i'll admit I didn't read it despite my love for literature.

I'll read it after drinking some coffee and shit.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 04:05 PM
Quote from: Davebut
Maybe if you posted some art other than the rudhed stuff you make I might regard you as an artist, but i'll admit I didn't read it despite my love for literature.

I'll read it after drinking some coffee and shit.

All of my art is viewable on my site.

http://www.egoraptor.net/scrap/ (http://www.egoraptor.net/scrap/)

There are a ton of sketches and stuff of original characters and STUFF but all the planning stuff with notes and diagrams I don't make public.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 04:06 PM
The phenomenon called electromagnetic induction was first noticed and investigated by Michael Faraday, in 1831. Electromagnetic induction is the production of an electromotive force (emf) in a conductor as a result of a changing magnetic field about the conductor and is a very important concept. Faraday discovered that, whenever the magnetic field about an electromagnet was made to grow and collapse by closing and opening the electric circuit of which it was a part, an electric current could be detected in a separate conductor nearby. Faraday also investigated the possibility that a current could be produced by a magnetic field being placed near a coiled wire. Just placing the magnet near the wire could not produce a current. Faraday discovered that a current could be produced in this situation only if the magnet had some velocity. The magnet could be moved in either a positive or negative direction but had to be in motion to produce any current in the wire. The current in the coil is called an induced current, because the current is brought about (or “induced”) by a changing magnetic field (Cutnell and Johnson 705). The induced current is sustained by an emf. Since a source of emf is always needed to produce a current, the coil itself behaves as if it were a source of emf. The emf is known as an induced emf. Thus, a changing magnetic field induces an emf in the coil, and the emf leads to an induced current (705). He also found that moving a conductor near a stationary permanent magnet caused a current to flow in the wire as long as it was moving as in the magnet and coiled wire set-up. Faraday visualized a magnetic field as composed of many lines of induction, along which a small magnetic compass would point. The aggregate of the lines intersecting a given area is called the magnetic flux. Faraday attributed the electrical effects to a changing magnetic flux.
The necessity of motion to produce a current is due to the fact that electromagnetic induction involves a time-varying magnetic field. The same effects can be produced by moving the coil toward and away from a motionless magnetic source. In either case, the key to producing the current is certainly the motion of the magnet or the wire. The magnetic lines of the magnetic field must pass through a loop of the coiled wire. The value of the magnetic flux is proportional to the total number of lines passing through the loop (Serway and Faughn 653). The magnetic flux can be stated in an equation equal to the flux: f = ((A) or f = ((A) cos q. The value for the magnetic field ( is multiplied by the area of one loop of the wire coil (A) and the angle at which the magnetic field crosses the plane of the loop. This conclusion lead to the development of other law involving electromagnetic flux.
Sometime after Faraday’s experiments and conclusions, Scottish physicist James Clerk Maxwell proposed that the fundamental effect of changing magnetic flux was the production of an electric field, not only in a conductor, where it could drive an electric charge, but also in space even in the absence of electric charges. Maxwell formulated the mathematical expression relating the change in magnetic flux to the induced electromotive force (emf). This relationship, known as Faraday's law of induction, states that the magnitude of the emf induced in a circuit is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux that cuts across the circuit. The induced emf along any moving or fixed mathematical path in a constant or changing magnetic field equals the rate at which magnetic flux sweeps across the path (Ohanian 784). The subsequent magnetic field produced in the coil will be in the opposite direction of the magnetic field of the bar magnet. This due to the relationships between the emf, the current, and the magnetic field. If the field were produced in the direction of the magnet’s magnetic field, the system would continue to build in charge due to the effects of an increase in the electromagnetic flux acting on the coil. The system would result in disaster if continued in that manner. The field must, by law, resist the increase of the magnetic flux acting on the coil in order to maintain the balance of the system. The equation for this is: E = - N (qf / qt) where N is the number of loops in the coiled wire and t is the time in which the flux, f, is changed.
This experiment will explore a few of the situations in which a current can be induced by a magnetic field. These have proven useful for the possibilities of producing a current with magnetism. The translation of this is that through construction of generators, the magnetic field passing through the coiled wire produces a useful source of electricity. The induced current and induced emf relate to the amperage and voltage passing through many of our homes today. These discoveries were used to revolutionize the way we lived at the turn of the century by providing the physical laws needed by inventors to produce new technology.
Procedure:
I. Currents Induced in Straight Wires:
1. Connect the single wire apparatus to the power supply as shown. The ammeter should be on high scale. Place one of the small silver compasses on the back ledge. Rotate the ledge and plot the magnetic field. Remember that the magnetic field always runs from north to south. Therefore always put the arrow on your field line in the direction that the north arrow points.
2. Turn the current up to around 5 amperes. Be careful not to touch any wires or you will get a very bad shock. Also hurry in taking your measurements or the circuit breaker will blow. Rotate the ledge again and plot the field. Read your textbook on the theory of magnetic fields for straight wires before doing this. Reverse the leads so the current flows in the opposite direction and repeat.
3. Now connect the wire loop apparatus, the ammeter, and the power supply in a series circuit. Turn the power supply up until the ammeter reads about 2 amperes. This time you will be using one of the larger gold compasses. Hold the compass on the inside of the loop, taking note of the way the needle points. Repeat outside of the loop on all sides. Draw the loop on your paper and plot the magnetic field. Reverse the direction of the current flow through the loop and repeat the measurements.
4. Set the panel voltage to 1.5 volts using the voltmeter. Connect a coil to the supply as shown below. Insert the slotted cardboard
in the hole. Using the compass on the cardboard, map out the magnetic field. Include the directional arrows. Reverse the direction of the current and repeat.
1.5 volts


II. Currents Induced By a Bar Magnet:

1. Connect a galvanometer (most sensitive scale) to the terminals of the coil, as shown below. Quickly insert one end of the bar magnet into the coil, wait, then, quickly remove the magnet. What are your observations? Use sketches of the coil to indicate current directions. There are four cases to be considered: (1) north inserted, (2) north withdrawn, (3) south inserted, and (4) south withdrawn. For each case there are four pictures. Therefore, a total of 16 diagrams are required. The direction the galvanometer needle moves is the same direction as the current is flowing. Remember the bar magnet has a field running from N to S. When this is inserted in the coil, a current is set up in order to produce a magnetic field that will cancel out the field of the bar magnet. Is the field produced by the current in the coil in the right direction to cancel the field of the bar magnet?
2. Repeat part 1, but much more slowly than before. Compare results. Does the speed have an effect on the strength of the magnetic field produced?
3. Repeat the procedure with the other end of the magnet.



III. Currents Induced by Current- Carrying Coils:
1. Connect a second coil t the 1.5v power supply oriented as shown. Quickly move coil A up to coil B, maintaining orientation shown above (note effects). Indicate the current in each coil. Quickly move coil A away from B. Indicate the directions of the currents in the coils. Remember current flows from to – and is set in coil A. Does coil A behave exactly like the bar magnet did?
2. Now disconnect one wire from coil A and move coil A up to coil B. Reconnect the wire to coil A (note effect), disconnect wire (note effect). Indicate direction of currents in coils for each case.
A B
V
Results:
The results of this laboratory are not represented as calculations. The diagrams in the previous section constitutes a large portion of the answers to the questions and assignments within the procedure. Most of the questions are represented in the previous section and those questions requiring a verbal answer are fulfilled in this section.
The first question from the second part of the Procedure section asks for observations of the swift insertion of the bar magnet into the coil. The galvanometer needle moves into position and then settles back to neutral after the magnet stops.
The next question, also in that section, asks if the field produced by the current in the coil was in the opposite direction of the magnetic field of the bar magnet? The field produced is bound by physical law to be in the opposite direction of the field of the bar magnet. The field acts to cancel the effect of the magnet’s field on the coil.
The next question asks if the speed of the inserted magnet has any effect on the strength of the magnetic field produced. The answer is yes; the field produced in the coil is weaker as the magnet is inserted and withdrawn at a slower pace.
The final question of the laboratory, from the third section of the procedure, asks if the coil attached to the power supply acts like the bar magnet did when moved close to another coil. The answer is yes; the powered coil has a magnetic field due to the current passing through it. When placed near the other coil at some rate of speed, the galvanometer attached to the second coil reacts to the current being produced in the coil.

Percentage Error Difference:
This laboratory does not involve any numerical calculations to be compared to theoretical values. Due to this fact, there is no percentage error difference found in the course of these experiments. That said, any error in the reporting of the results and data of this lab would be the result of human error. Any wrongful interpretations or misappropriation of the experimental situations would be attributed to the student. This is the only source of error in this laboratory.

Conclusion;
The laboratory results were very clear. The equipment was used in its proper manner and subsequently produced accurate results. The mapping of the magnetic fields around the current- carrying straight and looped wires were found to be consistent with the instruction provided in the textbook. The change in direction of the current produced to appropriate resulting magnetic field as compared to the text.
The bar magnet and coil section of the laboratory allowed for a close comparison with the theory behind electromagnetic induction. As the magnet was inserted into the coil, the galvanometer needle registered a current. The direction of the resulting field could then be produced with guidance from the theory and a little deductive reasoning.
The final section of the procedure also held to the predictions of theory. The idea that a powered coil would act like a bar magnet when moved into close proximity with a coil attached to a galvanometer also proved to be true. The galvanometer reacted in the same way as if the magnet were being inserted into the coil. The powered coil has a magnetic field of its own due to the current in the wire. As a result of this field, the galvanometer detects a current in the coil attached to it exactly like the situations involving a bar magnet.
The results of this laboratory indicates a successful representation of the basic theoretical guidelines. The equipment was satisfactory for the tasks described in the procedure and the results were equally as satisfying. With this success, the student sees the theory in a tangible form and this would help to cement the concepts of electromagnetic induction in their memory.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 04:11 PM
Well anyway I feel like this thread is kind of going crazy so I just want to thank you guys for being pretty cool about the things I said and I dunno if I did any good by it haha but yeah, it was cool that I wasn't met with total hatred except of course rtil hi there also that fucking monster datin' song is stuck in my head jesus christ.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 04:22 PM

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Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 04:23 PM
Quote from: egoraptor
except of course rtil hi there
hi
p.s. honesty is not a synonym of hatred
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 04:26 PM
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: egoraptor
except of course rtil hi there
hi
p.s. honesty is not a synonym of hatred

Well then you must be a gypsy because the last time I heard people couldn't see into the future.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: CoolDrMoney on November 28, 2008 04:26 PM
I wasn't saying bee mean to em I was just saying you should at least positively use that power you got and redirect them to something better. Honestly if my Brawl Funnie shit got in the top 50, I would be completely ashamed and never make anything like that again at least not for awhile and Id be like "Dont watch this it sucks heres something BETTER you can all watch".

Anyway the point Im REALLY trying to make is if your woman lights a candle with her nose shes probably a monster lady gal.

Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 04:27 PM
Where Chaos begins, classical science ends. Ever since physicists have inquired into the laws of nature, the have not begun to explore irregular side of nature, the erratic and discontinuous side, that have always puzzled scientists. They did not attempt to understand disorder in the atmosphere, the turbulent sea, the oscillations of the heart and brain, and the fluctuations of wildlife populations. All of these things were taken for granted until in the 1970's some American and European scientists began to investigate the randomness of nature.
They were physicists, biologists, chemists and mathematicians but they were all seeking one thing: connections between different kinds of irregularity. "Physiologists found a surprising order in the chaos that develops in the human heart, the prime cause of a sudden, unexplained death. Ecologists explored the rise and fall of gypsy moth populations. Economists dug out old stock price data and tried a new kind of analysis. The insights that emerged led directly into the natural world- the shapes of clouds, the paths of lightning, the microscopic intertwining of blood vessels, the galactic clustering of stars." (Gleick, 1987)

The man most responsible for coming up with the Chaos theory was Mitchell Feigenbaum, who was one of a handful of scientists at Los Alamos, New Mexico when he first started thinking about Chaos. Feigenbaum was a little known scientist from New York, with only one published work to his name. He was working on nothing very important, like quasi periodicity, in which he and only he had 26 hour days instead of the usual 24. He gave that up because he could not bear to wake up to setting sun, which happened periodically. He spent most of time watching clouds from the hiking trails above the laboratory. To him could represented a side of nature that the mainstream of physics had passed by, a side that was fuzzy and detailed, and structured yet unpredictable. He thought about these things quietly, without producing any work.

After he started looking, chaos seemed to be everywhere. A flag snaps back and forth in the wind. A dripping faucet changes from a steady pattern to a random one. A rising column of smoke disappears into random swirls. "Chaos breaks across the lines that separate scientific disciplines. Because it is a science of the global nature of systems, it has brought together thinkers from fields that have been widely separated...Chaos poses problems that defy accepted ways of working in science. It makes strong claims about the universal behavior of complexity. The first Chaos theorists, the scientists who set the discipline in motion, shared certain sensibilities. They had an eye for pattern, especially pattern that appeared on different scales at the same time. They had a taste for randomness and complexity, for jagged edges and sudden leaps. Believers in chaos-- and they sometimes call themselves believers, or converts, or evangelists--speculate about determinism and free will, about evolution, about the nature of conscious intelligence. They feel theat they are turning back a trend in science towards reductionism, the analysis of systems in terms of their constituent parts: quarks, chromosomes, or neutrons. They believe that they are looking for the whole."(Gleick, 1987)

The Chaos Theory is also called Nonlinear Dynamics, or the Complexity theory. They all mean the same thing though- a scientific discipline which is based on the study of nonlinear systems. To understand the Complexity theory people must understand the two words, nonlinear and system, to appreciate the nature of the science. A system can best be defined as the understanding of the relationship between things which interact. For example, a pile of stones is a system which interacts based upon how they are piled. If they are piled out of balance, the interaction results in their movement until they find a condition under which they are in balance. A group of stones which do not touch one another are not a system, because there is no interaction. A system can be modeled. Which means another system which supposedly replicates the behavior ofthe original system can be created. Theoretically, one can take a second group of stones which are the same weight, shape, and density of the first group, pile them in the same way as the first group, and predict that they will fall into a new configuration that is the same as the first group. Or a mathematical representation can be made of the stones through application of Newton's law of gravity, to predict how future piles of the same type - and of different types of stones - will interact. Mathematical modeling is the key, but not the only modeling process used for systems.

The word nonlinear has to do with understanding mathematical models used to describe systems. Before the growth of interest in nonlinear systems, most models were analyzed as though they were linear systems meaning that when the mathematical formulas representing the behavior of the systems were put into a graph form, the results looked like a straight line. Newton used calculus as a mathematical method for showing change in systems within the context of straight lines. And statistics is a process of converting what is usually nonlinear data into a linear format for analysis.

Linear systems are the classic scientific system and have been used for hundreds of years, they are not complex, and they are easy to work with because they are very predictable. For example, you would consider a factory a linear system. If more inventory is added to the factory, or more employees are hired, it would stand to reason that more pieces produced by the factory by a significant amount. By changing what goes into a system we should be able to tell what comes out of it. But as any factory manager knows, factories don't actually work that way. If the amount of people, the inventory, or whatever other variable is changed in the factory you would get widely differing results on a day to day basis from what was predicted. That is because a factory is a complex nonlinear system, like most systems found in nature.

When most natural systems are modeled, their mathematical representations do not produce straight lines on graphs, and that the system outputs are extremely difficult to predict. Before the chaos theory was developed, most scientists studied nature and other random things using linear systems. Starting with the work of Sir Isaac Newton, physics has provided a process for modeling nature, and the mathematical equations associated with it have all been linear. When a study resulted in strange answers, when a prediction usually came true but not this one time, the failure was blamed on experimental error or noise.

Now, with the advent of the Chaos theory and research into complex systems theory, we know that the "noise" actually was important information about the experiment. When noise is added to the graph results, the results are no longer a straight line, and are not predictable. This noise is what was originally referred to as the chaos in the experiment. Since studying this noise, this chaos, was one of the first concerns of those studying complex systems theory, Glieck originally named the discipline Chaos Theory.

Another word that is vital to understanding the Complexity theory is complex. What makes us determine which system is more complex then another? There are many discussions of this question. In Exploring Complexity, Nobel Laureate Ilya Prigogine explains that the complexity of the system is defined by the complexity of the model necessary to effectively predict the behavior of the system. The more the model must look like the actual system to predict system results, the more complex the system is considered to be. The most complex system example is the weather, which, as demonstrated by Edward Lorenz, can only be effectively modeled with an exact duplicate of itself. One example of a simple system to model is to calculate the time it takes for a train to go from city A to city B if it travels at a given speed. To predict the time we need only to know the speed that the train is traveling (in mph) and the distance (in miles). The simple formula would be mph/m, which is a simple system.

But the pile of stones, which appears to be a simple system, is actually very complex. If we want to predict which stone will end up at which place in the pile then you would have to know very detailed information about the stones, including their weights, shapes, and starting location of each stone to make an accurate prediction. If there is a minor difference between the shape of one stone in the model and the shape of the original stone, the modeled results will be very different. The system is very complex, thus making prediction very difficult..

The generator of unpredictability in complex systems is what Lorenz calls "sensitivity to initial conditions" or "the butterfly effect." The concept means that with a complex, nonlinear system, a tiny difference in starting position can lead to greatly varied results. For example, in a difficult pool shot a tiny error in aim causes a slight change in the balls path. However, with each ball it collides with, the ball strays farther and farther from the intended path. Lorenz once said that "if a butterfly is flapping its wings in Argentina and we cannot take that action into account in our weather prediction, then we will fail to predict a thunderstorm over our home town two weeks from now because of this dynamic."(Lorenz, 1987)

The general rule for complex systems is that one cannot create a model that will accurately predict outcomes but one can create models that simulate the processes that the system will go through to create the models. This realization is impacting many activities in business and other industries. For instance, it raises considerable questions relating to the real value of creating organizational visions and mission statements as currently practices.

Like physics, the Chaos theory provides a foundation for the study of all other scientific disciplines. It is a variety of methods for incorporating nonlinear dynamics into the study of science. Attempts to change the discipline and make it a separate form of science have been strongly resisted. The work represents a reunification of the sciences for many in the scientific community.

One of Lorenz's best accomplishments supporting the Chaos Theory was the Lorenz Attractor. The Lorenz Attractor is based on three differential equations, three constants, and three initial conditions. The attractor represents the behavior of gas at any given time, and its condition at any given time depends upon its condition at a previous time. If the initial conditions are changed by even a tiny amount, checking the attractor at a later time will show numbers totally different. This is because small differences will reproduce themselves recursively until numbers are entirely unlike the original system with the original initial conditions. But, the plot of the attractor, or the overall behavior of the system will be the same.

A very small cause which escapes our notice determines a considerable effect that we cannot fail to see, and then we say that the effect is due to chance. If we knew exactly the laws of nature and the situation of the universe at the initial moment, we could predict exactly the situation of that same universe at a succeeding moment. But even if it were the case that the natural laws had any secret for us, we could still know the situation approximately. If that enabled us to predict the succeeding situation with the same approximation, that is all we require, and we should say that the phenomenon has been predicted, that it is governed by the laws. But it is not always so; it may happen that small differences in the initial conditions produce very great ones in the final phenomena. A small error in the former will produce an enormous error in the latter. Prediction becomes impossible..." (Poincare, 1973)

The Complexity theory has developed from mathematics, biology, and chemistry, but mostly from physics and particularly thermodynamics, the study of turbulence leading to the understanding of self-organizing systems and system states (equilibrium, near equilibrium, the edge of chaos, and chaos). "The concept of entropy is actually the physicists application of the concept of evolution to physical systems. The greater the entropy of a system, the more highly evolved is the system."( Prigogine, 1974) The Complexity theory is also having a major impact on quantum physics and attempts to reconcile the chaos of quantum physics with the predictability of Newton's universe.

With complexity theory, the distinctions between the different disciplines of sciences are disappearing. For example, fractal research is now used for biological studies. But there is a question as to whether the current research and academic funding will support this move to interdisciplinary research.

Complexity is already affecting many aspects of our lives and has a great impacts on all sciences. It is answering previously unsolvable problems in cosmology and quantum mechanics. The understanding of heart arrhythmias and brain functioning has been revolutionized by complexity research. There have been a number of other things developed from complexity research, such a the SimLife, SimAnt, etc. which are a series of computer programs. Fractal mathematics are critical to improved information compression and encryption schemes needed for computer networking and telecommunications. Genetic algorithms are being applied to economic research and stock predictions. Engineering applications range from factory scheduling to product design, with pioneering work being done at places like DuPont and Deere & Co.

Another element of the nonlinear dynamics, Fractals, have appeared everywhere, most recently in graphic applications like the successful Fractal Design Painter series of products. Fractal image compression techniques are still being researched, but promise such amazing results as 600:1 graphic compression ratios. The movie special effects industry would have much less realistic clouds, rocks, and shadows without fractal graphic technology.

Though it is one of the youngest sciences, the Chaos Theory holds great promise in the fields of meteorology, physics, mathematics, and just about anything else you can think of.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: sQueef on November 28, 2008 04:32 PM
happy thanksgivin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 04:34 PM
Quote from: CoolDrMoney
I wasn't saying bee mean to em I was just saying you should at least positively use that power you got and redirect them to something better. Honestly if my Brawl Funnie shit got in the top 50, I would be completely ashamed and never make anything like that again at least not for awhile and Id be like "Dont watch this it sucks heres something BETTER you can all watch".

Anyway the point Im REALLY trying to make is if your woman lights a candle with her nose shes probably a monster lady gal.

Yeah, I see what you're saying for sure. Well, I've been wanting to mention other animators' stuff more often anyway.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 04:36 PM
Quote from: egoraptor
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: egoraptor
except of course rtil hi there
hi
p.s. honesty is not a synonym of hatred

Well then you must be a gypsy because the last time I heard people couldn't see into the future.
you know you're not the only person on earth who beat a dead horse (twice) then tried to compensate for it later
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 04:36 PM
Quote from: Squeef
happy thanksgivin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is always a mystery about how the universe began, whether

if and when it will end. Astronomers construct hypotheses called

cosmological models that try to find the answer. There are two

types of models: Big Bang and Steady State. However, through

many observational evidences, the Big Bang theory can best

explain the creation of the universe.

The Big Bang model postulates that about 15 to 20 billion

years ago, the universe violently exploded into being, in an

event called the Big Bang. Before the Big Bang, all of the

matter and radiation of our present universe were packed together

in the primeval fireball--an extremely hot dense state from which

the universe rapidly expanded.1 The Big Bang was the start of

time and space. The matter and radiation of that early stage

rapidly expanded and cooled. Several million years later, it

condensed into galaxies. The universe has continued to expand,

and the galaxies have continued moving away from each other ever

since. Today the universe is still expanding, as astronomers

have observed.

The Steady State model says that the universe does not

evolve or change in time. There was no beginning in the past,

nor will there be change in the future. This model assumes the

perfect cosmological principle. This principle says that the

universe is the same everywhere on the large scale, at all

times.2 It maintains the same average density of matter forever.

There are observational evidences found that can prove the

Big Bang model is more reasonable than the Steady State model.

First, the redshifts of distant galaxies. Redshift is a Doppler

effect which states that if a galaxy is moving away, the spectral

line of that galaxy observed will have a shift to the red end.

The faster the galaxy moves, the more shift it has. If the

galaxy is moving closer, the spectral line will show a blue

shift. If the galaxy is not moving, there is no shift at all.

However, as astronomers observed, the more distance a galaxy is

located from Earth, the more redshift it shows on the spectrum.

This means the further a galaxy is, the faster it moves.

Therefore, the universe is expanding, and the Big Bang model

seems more reasonable than the Steady State model.

The second observational evidence is the radiation produced

by the Big Bang. The Big Bang model predicts that the universe

should still be filled with a small remnant of radiation left

over from the original violent explosion of the primeval fireball

in the past. The primeval fireball would have sent strong

shortwave radiation in all directions into space. In time, that

radiation would spread out, cool, and fill the expanding universe

uniformly. By now it would strike Earth as microwave radiation.

In 1965 physicists Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson detected

microwave radiation coming equally from all directions in the

sky, day and night, all year.3 And so it appears that

astronomers have detected the fireball radiation that was

produced by the Big Bang. This casts serious doubt on the Steady

State model. The Steady State could not explain the existence of

this radiation, so the model cannot best explain the beginning of

the universe.

Since the Big Bang model is the better model, the existence

and the future of the universe can also be explained. Around 15

to 20 billion years ago, time began. The points that were to

become the universe exploded in the primeval fireball called the

Big Bang. The exact nature of this explosion may never be known.

However, recent theoretical breakthroughs, based on the

principles of quantum theory, have suggested that space, and the

matter within it, masks an infinitesimal realm of utter chaos,

where events happen randomly, in a state called quantum

weirdness.4

Before the universe began, this chaos was all there was. At

some time, a portion of this randomness happened to form a

bubble, with a temperature in excess of 10 to the power of 34

degrees Kelvin. Being that hot, naturally it expanded. For an

extremely brief and short period, billionths of billionths of a

second, it inflated. At the end of the period of inflation, the

universe may have a diameter of a few centimetres. The

temperature had cooled enough for particles of matter and

antimatter to form, and they instantly destroy each other,

producing fire and a thin haze of matter-apparently because

slightly more matter than antimatter was formed.5 The fireball,

and the smoke of its burning, was the universe at an age of

trillionth of a second.

The temperature of the expanding fireball dropped rapidly,

cooling to a few billion degrees in few minutes. Matter

continued to condense out of energy, first protons and neutrons,

then electrons, and finally neutrinos. After about an hour, the

temperature had dropped below a billion degrees, and protons and

neutrons combined and formed hydrogen, deuterium, helium. In a

billion years, this cloud of energy, atoms, and neutrinos had

cooled enough for galaxies to form. The expanding cloud cooled

still further until today, its temperature is a couple of degrees

above absolute zero.

In the future, the universe may end up in two possible

situations. From the initial Big Bang, the universe attained a

speed of expansion. If that speed is greater than the universe's

own escape velocity, then the universe will not stop its

expansion. Such a universe is said to be open. If the velocity

of expansion is slower than the escape velocity, the universe

will eventually reach the limit of its outward thrust, just like

a ball thrown in the air comes to the top of its arc, slows,

stops, and starts to fall. The crash of the long fall may be the

Big Bang to the beginning of another universe, as the fireball

formed at the end of the contraction leaps outward in another

great expansion.6 Such a universe is said to be closed, and

pulsating.

If the universe has achieved escape velocity, it will

continue to expand forever. The stars will redden and die, the

universe will be like a limitless empty haze, expanding

infinitely into the darkness. This space will become even

emptier, as the fundamental particles of matter age, and decay

through time. As the years stretch on into infinity, nothing

will remain. A few primitive atoms such as positrons and

electrons will be orbiting each other at distances of hundreds of

astronomical units.7 These particles will spiral slowly toward

each other until touching, and they will vanish in the last flash

of light. After all, the Big Bang model is only an assumption.

No one knows for sure that exactly how the universe began and how

it will end. However, the Big Bang model is the most logical and

reasonable theory to explain the universe in modern science.

ENDNOTES

1. Dinah L. Mache, Astronomy, New York: John Wiley & Sons,

Inc., 1987. p. 128.

2. Ibid., p. 130.

3. Joseph Silk, The Big Bang, New York: W.H. Freeman and

Company, 1989. p. 60.

4. Terry Holt, The Universe Next Door, New York: Charles

Scribner's Sons, 1985. p. 326.

5. Ibid., p. 327.

6. Charles J. Caes, Cosmology, The Search For The Order Of

The Universe, USA: Tab Books Inc., 1986. p. 72.

7. John Gribbin, In Search Of The Big Bang, New York: Bantam
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 28, 2008 05:03 PM
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: egoraptor
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: egoraptor
except of course rtil hi there
hi
p.s. honesty is not a synonym of hatred

Well then you must be a gypsy because the last time I heard people couldn't see into the future.
you know you're not the only person on earth who beat a dead horse (twice) then tried to compensate for it later

okay great
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 05:04 PM
cool thanks
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 28, 2008 05:15 PM
I cant read that I'm sorry.  I can and have taken bites out of it though.

Heres the thing that I want to make clear before I tread on into murky waters: Illwillpress is the ultimate model of concentrated evil an artist can reach.

Unreceptive to any criticism, lazy in his art, unthoughtful in his dialougue, willing to shit out the same thing for his entire career, not to mention unwilling to stand by his work.

Now may I ask, why is it so hard to have written what you just did?  Why can't you slap some of that logic onto NG.  It would turn some heads and definately keep people from forming thought-bases like I have.  I still don't like much of your work, but you should realize most of my posts here are subversive and facetious.  There isn't a culture on hating you, but such a thing is growing because of how you don't address issues like these, you let others defend you and create rifts between groups of people.

I always enjoy seeing different points of view, and maybe if Alvin-earthworm wasn't so gay (couldn't think of anything to say) he might not be so hated.  Hearing from the author is always great, and hearing from someone without their head entirely inside their ass is quite nice.

Artistic laziness is really something I think you've stumbled upon.  Maybe thats changed in whatever you made recetly, but for reasons that I'll explain a little later, I've stopped watching Awesome movies, and I never will resume.  Its very fundamental Frame-by-Frame, with no attempt at shading or detail except at intervals.  This entire style, although befitting of the movie type, makes me vomit, especially seeing adopted and then made sacred by artists like Oney.  Its easier to produce than the most fundamental sprite fight really.

Thoughtless dialougue is a check.  Illwillpress has a habit of just taking his extremists thoughts and then spouting them onto a flash.  It may sound insightful, but its all just commonsense mingled with paranoid-jingoism.

The dialougue I've heard in the awesome films have been whimsical cursing intermingled with plot, and part of what flashes warning lights to me is PSP SQUIRRELS WAS THE EXACT SAME THING!  No pacing, rapid-fire intentional stupidity.  Cutesy dialougue and plenty of swear words.  You can see how I've come to expect nothing but more of the same in years to come.

Here is the big kicker to why I write this kind of shit.  I loved the first "Metal Gear Awesome".  It was a new and exciting.  It intentionally disobeyed all pacing and art styles to fit the silly theme.  I believed it was the start of a new animators career, a start to a career of wonders.    Instead it was the start of a repetitive series.  It was the start of a newfound cynacism for me in my faith of people.

If you think you can't change anyone's opinions on the awesome series, then you are obviously correct, but if you think you can't change people's minds about YOU, then you are provably wrong.  If I were you, I would work as hard as possible to distance yourself from some unreceptive dick like AlvinEarthworm or Illwillpress.  I would answer people's criticisms, dispel rumors, and work on finishing those original projects no matter how torturous they are.

In other news faggot is one of my favorite words to type, among nigger, dick, and jew.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: mishkamash on November 28, 2008 05:16 PM
fucking
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: psi43 on November 28, 2008 05:25 PM
Quote from: Davebut
If you think you can't change anyone's opinions on the awesome series, then you are obviously correct, but if you think you can't change people's minds about YOU, then you are provably wrong.  If I were you, I would work as hard as possible to distance yourself from some unreceptive dick like AlvinEarthworm or Illwillpress.  I would answer people's criticisms, dispel rumors, and work on finishing those original projects no matter how torturous they are.

I pretty much agree with that, I mean you can still keep on making "awesome" movies if you want to, I mean it's fun to you and you like entertaining people with that, but people are comparing you to dicks like alvinearthwork and illwill as davebut said, which is not who you are. You are different than these animators and you should let people know that, just like you let us know.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 28, 2008 05:29 PM
Well one thing that I will acknowlege is everyone has their pet projects.  their set themes that they always revert to.  their favorite character they like to draw the most.  But living off of that and becoming to attached is unhealthy by all means.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: mishkamash on November 28, 2008 05:29 PM
i agree with what psi said because it makes sense!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: emanhattan on November 28, 2008 05:36 PM
Im going to write this without checking so Im sorry if I mispelled anythingñ

Ok, egoraptor, I get you. You are a human like all of us, you like money and having fun making cartoons and eating ice cream.
I respect that. I dont think there is anything wrong with that.

And you can animate pretty well if you try, because some of your work is pretty neat too.

The problem isnt that you have fun, the problem is that you dont see that you are damaging more artists than the ones you claim you are influencing to animate.

while the animations that you make in like, one day get a fuckton views, other artists are dying to get some people to notice them.

a god example being leafworthy. His khale flash was impressive, and it is currently number 47 of the top 50 in ng (wich doesnt work at all because on the top there should be it and the brackenwood cartoons).

This man worked probably 4 or 5 months in that flash, and he only got like 150,000 views. you see how unfair that gap is? You made gears of awesome and released it less than a week ago and it already has the double of it.

I just remembered that kirbopher made his brawl movie and released it at  about the same date, and he got like 5 times that ammount of views. you see?

kirbopher and leafworhy.
who deserved most views?
who worked the most?
who truly puts passion and effort into making something incredible just to see how a mediocre cartoon recieves all praise?

Have you ever found yourself in a similar situation? or can you recall an excelent piece that got ignored because some AWESOME VAGAINAZ was in top of the frontpage at Ng?

What makes you think leafworthy is not human too and that he doesnt like getting money and getting views and taking crap? huh?
You can win money and all if you want but you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of artists that work a lot and that are not recieving as much attention as you are. I asume getting 150,000 for a movie you made must be awesome, but getting one million views for some sloppy work must be even more awesome!

One day you will make something original or incredible you put your soul into, and will be most likely ignored because someone lazyer than you made a crappy thing. oh and he is going to say its for fun too.

All animators in Ng deserve some attention, you included, but you have to admit that you are influencing good animators to be ignored.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: emanhattan on November 28, 2008 05:50 PM
oh and one more thing.

I REALLY REALLY tried to just ignore the awesome things and try to keep my mind off all that stuff. I liked before all
the massvoting started.

but it is REAAAAAAAAAAALLLY fucking hard not to think about it when every fucking single place in ng has something about egoraptor written there.

I LOVE TEH EGORAPTR MAKE MORE AWESOM MOVIZ....

YOU SHOULD BE LIKE EGORAPTOR BECAUISE....

THIS NO FUNNY YOU WNAT TO BE FUNNY YOU SHOULD BE LIKE EGORA9TOR

pretty much this is what bothers MY own self about it.

I think your stuff is overrated, and recieves a fuckton of views, but Im not directly affected by that.

its you fans that are SUCH FUCKING DICK SUCKERS that make me wanna die
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: sQueef on November 28, 2008 05:52 PM
WHO CARES ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT
FUCK YOU FAGGOTS
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: emanhattan on November 28, 2008 05:54 PM
I just realized how gay I am for ranting all that shit.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 28, 2008 05:57 PM
God why the fuck would you have an opinion damn man you are shit for having an opinion you should be like AlvinEarthworm he has no opinions and that makes him really great
(http://tommyrico.blogspot.com/robbieButt01-1.jpg)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: sQueef on November 28, 2008 05:58 PM
FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 06:01 PM
Quote from: Squeef
WHO CARES ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT
egoraptor
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: shura on November 28, 2008 06:31 PM
can we just kill it?
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Cambo on November 28, 2008 06:54 PM
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: Squeef
WHO CARES ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT
egoraptor

i think it's pretty retarded to say after the countless posts, threads, rants and CARTOONS bitching about how egoraptor is killing originality, that only egoraptor cares about this.

OH UNLESS SHOCK HORROR THOSE MYTHICAL ANIMATORS WHO ARE CRYING OVER THEIR LACK OF ATTENTION AT THE HANDS OF THE AWESOME SERIES - UNLESS [size=]NOBODY ACTUALLY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THEM[/size]



but i doubt that's the case because that'd be hypocritical! and nobody here is a hypocrite.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 28, 2008 07:01 PM
Fuck you idiots.  Would you really want people to be inspired by someone who has the receptiveness of Illwillpress?  Would you want people to think that listening and responding to criticism is a chore?  Its great and all for people to get a start on art, but learning to recieve criticism is essential for improvement.

I respond to every shitty review on even the shittiest of my flashes, and often write serious replies on serious critiques.

I don't give a shit about some E-faggot's art career, I would rather see a next generation of people like Mindchamber than Alvin-Earthworm.

But thats just my opinion buzz buzz buzz
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: ZekeySpaceyLizard on November 28, 2008 07:03 PM
The story of Frankenstein by Mary Shelley is about a man who createdsomething that messes with nature, and nature came back to mess with himbecause nature is more powerful than man. Victor Frankenstein was very interested in natural philosophy andchemistry and basically tried to play G-d by creating life. When hefound the secret of activating dead flesh, he created a superhuman beingcomposed of rotted corpses. What he did was considered unthinkable, andhe was haunted by his own creation. When the monster escaped, Frankenstein knew that he had to deal withthe consequences of what the monster might do. Frankenstein received aletter one day which informed him of his younger brother William'smurder, and immediately suspected that he was responsible, for he wasthe creator of the hideous monster. A friend of the family namedJustine Moritz was the "presumed" murderer, and Frankenstein wasdetermined to prove her innocent. Circumstantial evidence, however, ledthe courts to believe Justine guilty, because found in her pocket was aphotograph which had belonged to William. Justine had been put to death, and Frankenstein had yet to find hiscreation. Finally, upon their meeting, the monster confessed to hiscreator of what he had been through, how he was rejected by society, andfinally, how he had come to kill William. When William had revealed hisname to the monster, the monster immediately figured that by killing theyoung boy, he would have revenge on Frankenstein for giving him life. The monster did not understand the concept of right and wrong and heespecially didn't mean to kill anybody. His expression of anger endedup being violent, even fatal to the victim, and it just worked out thathe killed people. As the monster's story continued, he demanded of Frankenstein a femalemate who he can be with until his end, and promised to live away fromsociety. Frankenstein, meanwhile, tried to restore the monster'sdemented mind so he could live a normal life. Although at first Frankenstein agreed to create a friend for themonster, he changed his mind for fear that between the two of them, hislife, as well as many others, would be in danger. The creature wantedrevenge, and so everything important in Frankenstein's life ended upbeing destroyed, including his wife and best friend.
Most Americans have some idea of who Frankenstein is, as a result of many Frankenstein movies and popularity of monster. However, most people’s ideas are incorrect about Mary Shelley’s novel, Frankenstein is the name of the scientist, not monster, and the monster himself is not the inarticulate, rage-driven criminal that Robert de niro shows in the 1994 film version of the novel. Shelley’s original Frankenstein was misrepresented by this Kenneth branagh film, most likely to send a different message to the movie audience than Shelley’s novel shows to its readers. The conflicting messages of technologies deserve being dependent on its creator (address by Shelley) and poetic justice, or triumph over evil (showed by the movie) is best represented by the scene immediately preceding Frankenstein’s monster’s death.
In Shelley’s novel, the final picture of Frankenstein’s monster reveals important qualities of his inner nature; he is shown in the last moments of his life to be felling, fully conscious of his guilt, and firm in his decision to end his life. This is the conclusion of a long series of events providing insight into how the monster changed as a result of his creator’s actions and the actions of the people with whom he came in contact. Up until this final point, he has changed from being good and hopeful to being caught up in the desire for a companion, to being evil and only focused on revenge. All these changes are recounted by the monster himself in this scene. (Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine)
He was at one point motivated by many good things like as virtue and honor, so much so that he wanted a companion to share in his happy life. “When I first sought it [sympathy], it was the love of virtue, the feelings of happiness and affection with which my whole being overflowed, that I wished to be participated. . . . Once my fancy was soothed with dreams of virtue, of fame, and of enjoyment. . . . I was nourished with high thoughts of honor and devotion.” (154) He did not start out as an evil being, but rather was good by nature and exposed early in his life to good things. (Allen, g.s)
Frankenstein’s and society’s rejection of the monster, however, drove him to an uneven passionate pursuit for a companion. He forced Frankenstein to create a female monster, and he provided motivation by killing Frankenstein’s loved ones and threatening to kill more of them. The monster recalls in this final scene of Shelley’s novel how his desire drove him to evil. “. . . do you think that I was then dead to agony and remorse?--He . . . suffered not more in the consummation of the deed;--oh! Not the ten-thousandth portion of the anguish that was mine during the lingering detail of its execution. A frightful selfishness hurried me on. . . .” (153) At that point in the novel, the monster has changed from good in nature to evil in nature. His own desires are more important to him than the well-being of others and he is willing to commit murder in order ensure the fulfillment of his desire.
The second change the monster makes is becoming totally motivated by revenge. He becomes completely evil, not looking for a companion but only the unhappiness and suffering of Frankenstein, his creator. “... I was the slave, not the master of an impulse, which I detested, yet could not disobey. ... The contemplation of my demoniacal design became an insatiable passion.” (153-4) although the monster may have wanted to behave in an honorable way, he give up to his anger and decided to live for the purpose of ruining the life of Frankenstein.
All of these changes, though, after Frankenstein die. Upon seeing Frankenstein’s corpse, the monster is overcome by sorrow and remorse. He exclaims, “Oh, Frankenstein! Generous and self-devoted being! What does it avail that I now ask thee to pardon me?” (153) At this point, Shelley’s message about technology is most clear: Technology’s benefits and dangers dependent on its makers. Throughout the book, various passages have hinted about this idea: The early philosophers’ work is disapproved because of the ideas that the scientists believed in, such as the philosopher’s stone. Though their technology laid some foundations for other scientists, their work was considered “trash” because of the creators themselves. The monster’s changes and his ultimate fate mainly dependence on Frankenstein’s actions. (Vlasopolos)
As we have seen, when Frankenstein rejects his monster, the monster seeks companionship of another form as a result of Frankenstein’s actions. When Frankenstein destroys the second monster he was working on, the monster changes his entire reason for living. This also is purely because of the creator’s actions. On a more appreciate level; the monster’s predisposition for evil most likely was the result of the inventor’s state while he was working on his invention. Frankenstein was strike by an intense frenzy while he was working on his monster; as a result, he created an ugly creature that ultimately would be rejected by society and turn evil. The emotional state of the creator affected the technology he was responsible for.
Shelley’s message is a powerful one; however, it is messed up by the Kenneth branagh film version of her novel. In this version, the monster does not seem to undergo any changes at all, besides becoming angrier and seek for revenge. There is no clearer lesson to be learned about technology; in fact, one of the only messages showed by the movie is that of poetic justice, the “bad guy” getting what he deserves. The message about technology is ambiguous, but most likely has something to do with the mix-up of brain. (Aldiss, brain w)
By the end of the movie, the monster has become bad evil, as he became in the book. The reason for this is unclear--perhaps he has become more evil because he was scared by the people who had just chased him to the end of the world, or perhaps this is just the natural result of his criminal brain influencing his behavior. The message is that evil creates evil, which doesn’t provide any new insights about technology; it can be applied to nearly any situation, especially one with a monster involved. The monster is not used as a demonstration of how the creator affects his technology. Instead he is used to scare the movie audience and portray a horrific evil resulting not from the creator’s actions, but various mistakes and torturing.
Robert de niro portrayal of Frankenstein’s monster has created a false myth of an evil, unintelligent monster that is not at all similar to the one Shelley displays in her novel. Not only does the movie spread a false interpretation of Shelley’s work, it provides the public with no lasting message about technology or about the effects of misplaced human love. Shall we then seek revenge? Shall we destroy that what is evil? Of course not--Shelley gave us all to learn a lesson of tolerance and of correcting our mistakes. Perhaps if a more accurate film version of Frankenstein were available to the public, more people would be motivated to read the book and learn Shelley’s powerful message.

Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 28, 2008 07:05 PM
Quote from: Cambo
Quote from: rtil
Quote from: Squeef
WHO CARES ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT
egoraptor

i think it's pretty retarded to say after the countless posts, threads, rants and CARTOONS bitching about how egoraptor is killing originality, that only egoraptor cares about this.

OH UNLESS SHOCK HORROR THOSE MYTHICAL ANIMATORS WHO ARE CRYING OVER THEIR LACK OF ATTENTION AT THE HANDS OF THE AWESOME SERIES - UNLESS [size=]NOBODY ACTUALLY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THEM[/size]



but i doubt that's the case because that'd be hypocritical! and nobody here is a hypocrite.
you're the one dealing absolutes
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: LordZeebmork on November 28, 2008 07:23 PM
this post probably won't make any sense since I can't be bothered to read any of it

okay now that I think of it this bitching is really lame and pointless and yeah I have to agree with egoraptor at least a bit

there's no real point bitching about things. yes, newgrounds is attracting fucktards by frontpaging mindless shit like the awesome series, and yes, that sucks, but the site owners don't give a fuck about that as long as they make money (sellouts) and those fucktards spend more of their parents' money on ng shirts than intelligent users would. so yeah, the awesome series fits the purpose of newgrounds, which is to make money. if you want a better portal, go to campnorth or something. hell, set up your own.

I usually hate making flash so I haven't signed up on campnorth yet (and I probably never will) because I don't feel like fucking it up with my talentless shitty flash and talentless shittier art but that isn't relevant at all so um
 anyway

egoraptor seriously what makes you think your fans will branch out beyond video game parodies? hopefully they'll grow up, and I've seen that happen before with other things (example: daveb0t started off making madness shit) but it doesn't happen that much

hell, look at me. after I got sick of all the vg shit on newgrounds, I started watching a pile of old j00bie/LL shit and I fucking loved it. then I discovered animutations, fucking loved those, and decided to get flash so I could make some. (actually I think I originally intended to be the next majinpiccolo or some gay shit like that but I realized that that wouldn't work since I was 12 and squeaky prepubescent voiceacting sucks dick!!) two years later I haven't made anything but kes/sinitron ripoffs and shitty animutations. mainly because I'm too lazy to finish any of my larger projects, and as I said, I hate flash.

also egoraptor the only problem I have with you is that you seem to actually think that your awesome series is good or takes any sort of flash skill and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. I wouldn't blame someone who can't get a better job than working at target for supporting that piece of shit store and I would hope that if you get your thumb out of your ass and stop being an egotistical faggot nobody would have a problem with you aside from making shitty video game bullshit. (not like that would ever happen since most of the members here are elitist fuckers who think everyone not in the ss should be kicked off the internet)

hell, you seem to at least be able to either formulate a semi-coherent argument or bullshit enough to confuse me (and thanks to my iq of something like 144 (this is the part where everyone on tba jumps on me for saying shit that I can't prove), that isn't exactly easy) and that's more than some of the regulars here can do.

Quote from: Belief
some people here (faggots like zeebmork and davebut) are spamming gay shit like blank screens cause they're simply bored and don't have a life, they act like they don't care about NG and just want to read funny reviews.
you are an idiot

I have only ever submitted two blank screens so uh

and yeah NG is past the point where it can be saved from mindless consumerist bullshit but if I didn't give a shit about it at all I wouldn't go there.

I make shitty spam because I like making it, and I've liked watching it since sometime in 2003/2004. reviews are definitely part of it but if the reviews and drama were the only part of submitting that I cared about I would have stopped a long time ago.

if I felt like it I could use egoraptor's argument here. apparently I'm like a newgrounds legend or something by this point but I really don't care. people like c1ph3r and labusch like the shit I churn out, and labusch at least seems to have some flash potential, at least from his mozz movie, which he deleted. (now all he needs to do is stop talking like scarymoviefucker.)

but I don't give a shit about getting my dick sucked, or for that matter, any shit on newgrounds besides doing what I like.

Quote
i know that this won't help NG improving but oh well it's fun.
yeah this is what I think about spamming pretty much
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Daveb0t on November 28, 2008 07:52 PM
Oh I didn't even notice the part about spam bashing.

Teh fuck you Psi.  Over the years I've submitted about 30 fucking flashes, and all of them were a joy to make, however shitty the outcome.

How this has any bearings over my opinions and the way I view the flash world makes no sense to me, especially since the effort to get something past judgement is absolutely non-existant.  The SS and KK has already raped the portal so hard that nothing is unable to pass without the right application of deception and simple psychology.

If I want to make a shitty loop to a Bill O'riley remix song, I'll do it because I want to.  I'll submit it to NG as an added bonus.  If all I enjoyed was the reviews and trolling, I would not be here.

I do enjoy getting people pissed, but I enjoy a nice debate or insightful review much more.

I guess i have to make a large flash being entirely spiteful to its target audience in order to be cool.

PLUS I enjoy watching flashes like
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/101332 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/101332)
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/436308 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/436308)
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/373298 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/373298)
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/397014 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/397014)
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/390180 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/390180)
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/395798 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/395798)

There is no point bitching about this shit but to see someone better themselves is good.

And yeah I see what ego meant about spam being made because we enjoy it but I don't crank out the same spam flash for my entire flash career.  (I leave that to Afrounderscorestud)  Also what I typed is really gay but fuck, you need to look before you leap.

But I still love to pleasure myself

This statement was made to release any sexual tension encountered.^^

BRB taking my meds
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 28, 2008 08:14 PM
davbut and zeebmork stop typing about yourselves
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Swoop on November 28, 2008 08:36 PM
Read all of it top to bottom. I don't think anything he's expressed is unreasonable. I'm not surprised by most of the response to it either, but I think this was worth be put out there for the sake of "both sides" of the spectrum.

Oh bug you, where d'you find these songs, Heh.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: LordZeebmork on November 28, 2008 08:51 PM


fight the system

okay what the fuck why doesn't it work fuck you freehostia suck a dick
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 28, 2008 09:03 PM
Quote from: Zekey
The story of Frankenstein by Mary Shelley is about a man who createdsomething that messes with nature, and nature came back to mess with himbecause nature is more powerful than man. Victor Frankenstein was very interested in natural philosophy andchemistry and basically tried to play G-d by creating life. When hefound the secret of activating dead flesh, he created a superhuman beingcomposed of rotted corpses. What he did was considered unthinkable, andhe was haunted by his own creation. When the monster escaped, Frankenstein knew that he had to deal withthe consequences of what the monster might do. Frankenstein received aletter one day which informed him of his younger brother William'smurder, and immediately suspected that he was responsible, for he wasthe creator of the hideous monster. A friend of the family namedJustine Moritz was the "presumed" murderer, and Frankenstein wasdetermined to prove her innocent. Circumstantial evidence, however, ledthe courts to believe Justine guilty, because found in her pocket was aphotograph which had belonged to William. Justine had been put to death, and Frankenstein had yet to find hiscreation. Finally, upon their meeting, the monster confessed to hiscreator of what he had been through, how he was rejected by society, andfinally, how he had come to kill William. When William had revealed hisname to the monster, the monster immediately figured that by killing theyoung boy, he would have revenge on Frankenstein for giving him life. The monster did not understand the concept of right and wrong and heespecially didn't mean to kill anybody. His expression of anger endedup being violent, even fatal to the victim, and it just worked out thathe killed people. As the monster's story continued, he demanded of Frankenstein a femalemate who he can be with until his end, and promised to live away fromsociety. Frankenstein, meanwhile, tried to restore the monster'sdemented mind so he could live a normal life. Although at first Frankenstein agreed to create a friend for themonster, he changed his mind for fear that between the two of them, hislife, as well as many others, would be in danger. The creature wantedrevenge, and so everything important in Frankenstein's life ended upbeing destroyed, including his wife and best friend.
Most Americans have some idea of who Frankenstein is, as a result of many Frankenstein movies and popularity of monster. However, most people’s ideas are incorrect about Mary Shelley’s novel, Frankenstein is the name of the scientist, not monster, and the monster himself is not the inarticulate, rage-driven criminal that Robert de niro shows in the 1994 film version of the novel. Shelley’s original Frankenstein was misrepresented by this Kenneth branagh film, most likely to send a different message to the movie audience than Shelley’s novel shows to its readers. The conflicting messages of technologies deserve being dependent on its creator (address by Shelley) and poetic justice, or triumph over evil (showed by the movie) is best represented by the scene immediately preceding Frankenstein’s monster’s death.
In Shelley’s novel, the final picture of Frankenstein’s monster reveals important qualities of his inner nature; he is shown in the last moments of his life to be felling, fully conscious of his guilt, and firm in his decision to end his life. This is the conclusion of a long series of events providing insight into how the monster changed as a result of his creator’s actions and the actions of the people with whom he came in contact. Up until this final point, he has changed from being good and hopeful to being caught up in the desire for a companion, to being evil and only focused on revenge. All these changes are recounted by the monster himself in this scene. (Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine)
He was at one point motivated by many good things like as virtue and honor, so much so that he wanted a companion to share in his happy life. “When I first sought it [sympathy], it was the love of virtue, the feelings of happiness and affection with which my whole being overflowed, that I wished to be participated. . . . Once my fancy was soothed with dreams of virtue, of fame, and of enjoyment. . . . I was nourished with high thoughts of honor and devotion.” (154) He did not start out as an evil being, but rather was good by nature and exposed early in his life to good things. (Allen, g.s)
Frankenstein’s and society’s rejection of the monster, however, drove him to an uneven passionate pursuit for a companion. He forced Frankenstein to create a female monster, and he provided motivation by killing Frankenstein’s loved ones and threatening to kill more of them. The monster recalls in this final scene of Shelley’s novel how his desire drove him to evil. “. . . do you think that I was then dead to agony and remorse?--He . . . suffered not more in the consummation of the deed;--oh! Not the ten-thousandth portion of the anguish that was mine during the lingering detail of its execution. A frightful selfishness hurried me on. . . .” (153) At that point in the novel, the monster has changed from good in nature to evil in nature. His own desires are more important to him than the well-being of others and he is willing to commit murder in order ensure the fulfillment of his desire.
The second change the monster makes is becoming totally motivated by revenge. He becomes completely evil, not looking for a companion but only the unhappiness and suffering of Frankenstein, his creator. “... I was the slave, not the master of an impulse, which I detested, yet could not disobey. ... The contemplation of my demoniacal design became an insatiable passion.” (153-4) although the monster may have wanted to behave in an honorable way, he give up to his anger and decided to live for the purpose of ruining the life of Frankenstein.
All of these changes, though, after Frankenstein die. Upon seeing Frankenstein’s corpse, the monster is overcome by sorrow and remorse. He exclaims, “Oh, Frankenstein! Generous and self-devoted being! What does it avail that I now ask thee to pardon me?” (153) At this point, Shelley’s message about technology is most clear: Technology’s benefits and dangers dependent on its makers. Throughout the book, various passages have hinted about this idea: The early philosophers’ work is disapproved because of the ideas that the scientists believed in, such as the philosopher’s stone. Though their technology laid some foundations for other scientists, their work was considered “trash” because of the creators themselves. The monster’s changes and his ultimate fate mainly dependence on Frankenstein’s actions. (Vlasopolos)
As we have seen, when Frankenstein rejects his monster, the monster seeks companionship of another form as a result of Frankenstein’s actions. When Frankenstein destroys the second monster he was working on, the monster changes his entire reason for living. This also is purely because of the creator’s actions. On a more appreciate level; the monster’s predisposition for evil most likely was the result of the inventor’s state while he was working on his invention. Frankenstein was strike by an intense frenzy while he was working on his monster; as a result, he created an ugly creature that ultimately would be rejected by society and turn evil. The emotional state of the creator affected the technology he was responsible for.
Shelley’s message is a powerful one; however, it is messed up by the Kenneth branagh film version of her novel. In this version, the monster does not seem to undergo any changes at all, besides becoming angrier and seek for revenge. There is no clearer lesson to be learned about technology; in fact, one of the only messages showed by the movie is that of poetic justice, the “bad guy” getting what he deserves. The message about technology is ambiguous, but most likely has something to do with the mix-up of brain. (Aldiss, brain w)
By the end of the movie, the monster has become bad evil, as he became in the book. The reason for this is unclear--perhaps he has become more evil because he was scared by the people who had just chased him to the end of the world, or perhaps this is just the natural result of his criminal brain influencing his behavior. The message is that evil creates evil, which doesn’t provide any new insights about technology; it can be applied to nearly any situation, especially one with a monster involved. The monster is not used as a demonstration of how the creator affects his technology. Instead he is used to scare the movie audience and portray a horrific evil resulting not from the creator’s actions, but various mistakes and torturing.
Robert de niro portrayal of Frankenstein’s monster has created a false myth of an evil, unintelligent monster that is not at all similar to the one Shelley displays in her novel. Not only does the movie spread a false interpretation of Shelley’s work, it provides the public with no lasting message about technology or about the effects of misplaced human love. Shall we then seek revenge? Shall we destroy that what is evil? Of course not--Shelley gave us all to learn a lesson of tolerance and of correcting our mistakes. Perhaps if a more accurate film version of Frankenstein were available to the public, more people would be motivated to read the book and learn Shelley’s powerful message.

Dan Weisman
Comparative Literature 2BW
3-16-08
The Function of Prologues in Paradise Lost and The Spanish Tragedy
The prologue of a work of literature is an important tool for an author to both explicitly lay the foundation for the rest of their work and implicitly put their work into context. Prologues can serve a multitude of functions, including introducing key themes that will play out in the plot, establishing characters and plot devices, framing a story in relation to the works it is based upon, or simply entailing an author’s statement about their own work. In the case of both John Milton’s Paradise Lost and Thomas Kyd’s The Spanish Tragedy, nearly all of these prologue functions can be seen working in unison during the opening passages. Though the two works differ greatly in literary form, genre, and theme, their prologues share many similar traits. Both of them cover a vast amount of material in relatively few words. They introduce us to the worlds of each story, reveal the goals of each author, and instill a sense of self-awareness into the stories as well as the audience.
In Paradise Lost’s prologue, Milton first introduces us to the universe of his epic and the belief system it entails. He then openly states his own personal goals and aspirations for his work as a whole, as well as in relation to the classical literature that inspired it. This first-person address to the reader allows Milton to convey a sense of self-awareness towards his own process of literary creation. In The Spanish Tragedy’s prologue, Thomas Kyd introduces us to the universe of his play and the belief system it entails. Because his work is a play, Kyd then uses the character of Andrea’s ghost as a vehicle both to state his own personal goals and aspirations and to reference antiquity. By placing the main action of the plot in a play within a play, Kyd shows an astute self-awareness of his own creative process as a playwright. By examining the highly allusive prologues of Paradise Lost and The Spanish Tragedy, we can see that the authors both construct a broad framework on which to build the rest of their plots. This framework reveals key aspects of each work as a whole, including the intricate worlds and belief systems that drive each plot’s themes, their references to classic literature which position their works in relation to their forebears, and their sense of self awareness which allows each authors to grapple with the problem of literary creation.
In Paradise Lost’s prologue, Milton’s first few words are significant in establishing the world of the story and the important themes that will appear throughout. In the opening lines of the poem, Milton wastes no time in explicitly stating the subject of his epic. The first line reads “Of man’s first disobedience” (I.1). This is a clear way for Milton to express precisely what his poem will be about. He uses only two words to introduce both the main subject (“man”) and main theme (“disobedience”) that the entire poem will focus on. Milton mentions “man” in general terms to make it clear that his poem concerns all of mankind, and that the subject is not just a specific heroic protagonist like other epics. The theme of disobedience is the framework on which Milton constructs the rest of the poem; later in the plot, Satan’s tempting of man and man’s disobedience of God leads to man’s downfall, a point of comparison to Satan’s own disobedience and downfall. Milton’s meaning-laden opening line forces the reader to deduce the major themes of the epic.
Furthermore, Milton introduces his overwhelmingly Christian theology in the opening of his prologue. It is clear right away where Milton draws his inspiration from; he mentions “the fruit / Of that forbidden tree, whose mortal taste / Brought death into the world” (I.1-3) and the “loss of Eden” (I.5), which shows immediately that Paradise Lost’s story is a retelling of the first book of Bible, Genesis. Milton’s reproduction of a Bible story imbues his poem with the same set of beliefs and morals that Christianity entails, and this distinct belief system ties in with man’s disobedience. The “fruit” which “Brought death into the world” is both the literal fruit of the “forbidden tree” and the figurative fruit of Adam and Eve’s disobedience, which signifies the Christian belief that disobeying God is what brings pain into our lives; women experience the pain of childbirth in creating life, and all of mankind feels some sort of pain from “death” whether experiencing a painful demise themselves or the death of a loved one.
Milton adds another dimension to the moral universe of his poem when he evokes the Christian concept of forgiveness in the lines “till one greater man / Restore us, and regain the blissful seat” (I.4-5). This is a reference to the son of God, who will “Restore” humanity to our “blissful seat” in Heaven once we denounce our disobedience to God. Redemption and forgiveness is a distinct possibility later on in the plot as well; in Book XI, Adam and Eve’s prayers are heard by God and he answers them by allowing his son to eventually redeem mankind by becoming the “one greater man.” This forgiveness is only possible because Adam and Eve obey God’s commands after disobeying them, a contrast with Satan’s choice to never again obey God after his own fall. Milton introduces us to this Christian belief system of punishment and forgiveness to illuminate the moral structure of the poem and show us the divide between good and evil.
The Spanish Tragedy’s prologue lays the foundation for the play’s plot in a similar fashion to Paradise Lost’s prologue. Like Milton, Thomas Kyd starts his play by introducing the world of the plot and several key themes that set the play in motion. The first character who speaks is Don Andrea’s ghost, and although he is not the play’s protagonist, his opening words serve several important functions. He sets up the background of the play, introducing his own character as well as several of the main characters of the play, and establishes the genre as that of the revenge tragedy. First Andrea makes it clear he is an apparition, stating he is no longer “imprisoned in my wanton flesh” (I.i.2). By using words like “imprisoned” and “wanton” and emphasizing the death of his mortal character, Andrea establishes a negative and tragic tone that continues as the play goes on. The use of “wanton” also emphasizes the needlessness of our mortal bodies in the afterlife, when our souls become, as Andrea says, an “eternal substance” (I.i.1). Andrea declaring his living body a “prison” is a parallel to the way Milton defines mortal life as constant suffering and repentance for humans’ disobedience toward God.
Andrea also has parallels with Horatio, a character far more integral to the plot than he is. This parallel is foreshadowed by the fact that, as Andrea mentions, “By Don Horatio… / My funerals and obsequies were done” (I.i.26). Horatio was the man who put Andrea’s body and soul to rest, making it clear that Horatio is taking up the mantra of his friend Andrea and following in his footsteps in more ways than one. The connection between the two characters grows deeper as the audience discovers that Andrea and Horatio both “possessed a worthy dame / Which hight sweet Bel-Imperia by name” (I.i.10-11), and both end up being murdered by the same man (Balthazar). In this way, Andrea’s story of his own death can be seen as a foreshadowing and introduction to the crux of the play, in which Horatio’s character is murdered and sparks Heironimo, the protagonist, on a fervent quest for revenge similar to that of Andrea.
In addition to introducing the major subjects and themes of the play, The Spanish Tragedy’s prologue familiarizes the audience with the play’s complex belief system. Though Spanish Tragedy is similar to Paradise Lost in describing its moral universe in the opening lines, the belief system itself is much different in that it is a unique hybrid of Christian theology and pagan mythology. Andrea describes what happened after his death at the hands of Balthazar, saying “When I was slain, my soul descended straight / To pass the flowing stream of Acheron” (I.i.18-19). The use of “Acheron,” the famous river of Greek mythology where the dead are ferried to the underworld of Hades, is quite a departure from the Christian Hell described in Paradise Lost. Whereas Milton’s belief system seems to reject anything of pagan origin, Kyd wholeheartedly embraces Greek mythology, albeit within a more modern Christian setting. Kyd introduces this strange hybrid of Greek and Elizabethan religion to emphasize one of his most important themes: revenge. At the time the play was written, revenge was a taboo subject for Elizabethans, as they felt that vengeance should be a task left only to God. Kyd rejects this notion, instead leaving the decision regarding revenge to the pagan gods of the underworld, Pluto and his wife Proserpine. In a move Elizabethans surely would have deemed controversial, Proserpine sends Andrea back to earth with the spirit of Revenge so he can see his killer brought to justice. This device allows Kyd to circumvent his own time period’s sense of morality by allowing his play to exist in a universe where pagan mythology goes hand in hand with Christianity.
In addition to laying the foundation for the worlds and key themes of their stories, the prologues also allow each author to frame their work in relation to the classic works from which they draw inspiration. In the prologue of Paradise Lost, for instance, Milton references the great epic poems of the past in order to assert a position for his own epic poem. Milton repeatedly references antiquity, making allusions to earlier epic poems such as the Iliad, the Odyssey and the Aeneid. In these classical epics, the authors claim to draw inspiration from mystical spirits of creativity known as the muses. For instance, the first line of the Odyssey reads “Of man, sing in me Muse, and through me tell the story” and one of the first lines of the Aeneid reads “Tell me, O Muse.” There were nine classical muses whom the authors of these early epics claimed to have been inspired by, and legend has it they resided on Mount Helicon; as is mentioned in the notes, the “Aonian mount” is “Helicon, sacred to the Muses” (292). Milton frames his work in reference to the classics in very distinct terms, mentioning the “Heav’nly Muse” (I.6) from which he draws his own creativity. In simply mentioning a muse as the inspiration for his own epic poem, Milton shows that his poem will follow in the footsteps of traditional of epic poetry.
However, the key reason for Milton’s allusion to the classic epic poem formula is not just to pay tribute to the authors who came before him, but to express his belief that Paradise Lost will strive to surpass these classics. Milton references Mount Helicon when he says that his poem “intends to soar / Above th’ Aonian mount” (I.15), showing that he believes his inspiration and source material “soars” above theirs. Indeed, Milton sets out to write the greatest epic poem of all time, proclaiming that his poem “pursues / Things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme” (I.15-16). The “unattempted” aspiration that Milton “pursues” is to, as he puts it, “justify the ways of God to men” (I.26), a purpose that Milton feels is far loftier than the goals of his epic predecessors. He references the classical muses and Mount Helicon in order to draw a contrast between the nine classical muses and his own “Heav’nly” muse. Milton’s muse is far greater than their muses because Milton’s muse is the Holy Spirit itself, the same force that
“. . . didst inspire
That shepherd, who first taught the chosen seed,
In the beginning how the heav’ns and earth
Rose out of Chaos” (I.7-10).
On one level, this is an allusion to the spirit that imparted the Ten Commandments to Moses and laid the foundations for the Judeo-Christian worldview. On another level, the “shepherd” can be seen as a reference to Christ, since he is often depicted as a shepherd, and this is Milton’s assertion that, similar to how his poem will surpass the works that came before it, Christianity will usurp Judaism. The use of the word “seed” is also significant, as the word’s double meaning evokes both offspring and a plant seed, perhaps an implicit foreshadowing of the Tree of Knowledge. This shows Milton’s attempt to convey a deeper understanding of mankind to his readers and, in his mind, justifies his claims of having loftier goals than the classic epics.
Similarly, Spanish Tragedy, though it is a completely different form of literature than Paradise Lost, also references classic literature and epic poetry to frame the play in relation to literary history. Kyd extensively references the Aeneid in Andrea’s description of the underworld. For instance, when Andrea arrives in the underworld at the river of Acheron, a boatman named Charon refuses him passage across the river because, as Andrea states, “my rites of burial not performed, I might not sit amongst his passengers” (I.i.21-22). This is taken directly from the Aeneid, where the same “Charon” explains to Virgil’s hero Aeneas that he cannot ferry the dead across the river until they have been buried. Kyd’s vision of the underworld also shares the geography of Hell that Virgil creates in the Aeneid. Andrea says “Three ways there were: that on the right-hand side / Was ready way unto … / Where lovers live and bloody martialists” (I.i.59-60), and “The left hand path, declining fearfully, / Was ready downfall to the deepest hell” (I.i.63-64). These two segments of Hell are direct allusions to the Aeneid’s Hell, where lovers and martialists live in one area and the most evil sinners live in another. Kyd, however, like Milton, seeks to expand upon the work he references, allowing for a third “middle path” (I.i.72) where Andrea goes to discover his own fate. Just like Milton, Kyd shows respect for the famous literature of the past, but creates a world that expands the scope of what they established, asserting his play’s superiority.
Perhaps the most important aspect of the prologues which ties together their belief systems and their classical references to past works is the sense of self-awareness evoked by the authors. Paradise Lost’s prologue, for example, is openly self-aware; Milton speaks candidly, not assuming the role of any character except himself as the author. Throughout the prologue, Milton states “I thence / Invoke thy aid to my advent’rous song” (I.12-13), “Instruct me” (I.19), “what in me is dark / Illumine” (I.22-23), and “I may assert Eternal Providence” (I.25). All of this use of the first person in words like “I” and “me” for a poem which is not told from a first person perspective shows Milton’s self-awareness of his role as author and narrator. He wants his readers to become aware of his literary skill and knowledge to lend credibility to his cause of justifying “the ways of God to men.” This is why, when he introduces the belief system that will drive the plot, he is able to lend some authority to his words. Milton claims the Holy Ghost himself is speaking through him as the author, ensuring the reader of his faithfulness to Christian doctrine. This is also why Milton references the classic epics; he wants to show that as the author of his own sweeping epic, he has a great deal of knowledge about the history of epics as evidenced through his allusions. He claims that his superior theology justifies his statement that his poem “soars above” the classics. By becoming self-aware of his role as literary creator, Milton solves the problem of literary creation. He is able to create what he dubs the pinnacle of English literature out of his own faithfulness to his personal beliefs, coupled with his adherence to the classical literary forms.
Although Thomas Kyd is unable to directly address the audience as playwright due to the limitations of his medium, his prologue too is exceedingly self-aware in a manner similar to Milton’s prologue. Kyd uses the characters of Andrea and Revenge as an outlet for his own personal statement about his play, and like Milton, uses them to set up the play’s themes and beliefs as well as reference classic literature. Similar to Milton, Kyd uses his characters to make a statement on the belief structure of his play. The Christian and pagan hybrid universe that Andrea introduces allows for the play’s emphasis on the controversial theme of revenge. He also has Andrea reference classic epic poetry to assert his play’s position in literary history, and rather than reject classic belief systems outright like Milton, he simply modifies them to suit his play. This shows that Kyd, like Milton, creates his work of literature with the classic formula of literary creation in mind.
The nature of Andrea and Revenge in relation to the play as a whole is also significant. As Revenge says in the last line of the opening scene, “Here sit we down to see the mystery, / And serve for Chorus in this tragedy” (I.i.90-91). These two characters that introduce us to the world of the plot are made into audience members of the play themselves, and they “sit… down to see the mystery” just as the play’s real audience would have. They watch the main events of the plot occur in a play within a play, and make comments on it as the “Chorus.” This meta-theater setup can be seen as Kyd’s self-aware way of making comments on his own work, and bringing attention to the creation of theater to make the audience themselves aware of what went into the play they are seeing. This becomes even more apparent in the climax, when yet another play occurs within the play that Andrea and Revenge watch. This is how Kyd solves the problem of literary creation, not just by referencing antiquity as Milton does, but also by bringing to attention the representational nature of his medium.
In the prologues to Paradise Lost and The Spanish Tragedy, the authors lay a strong foundation for their stories in positing concrete belief systems that drive each works’ themes and referencing classic epic poetry to frame their works in relation to antiquity. The beliefs and references, while laying the groundwork for the rest of each plot, also add to a sense of self-awareness that both authors use to establish their literary role. In Paradise Lost’s prologue, Milton introduces a Biblical belief system which drives the themes of disobedience and redemption. He also references classic epic poetry, not only to pay tribute to his forebears, but also to use his Christian beliefs to assert his own poem’s superiority. The self-aware manner in which the prologue is constructed reveals to the reader Milton’s role as author, making apparent the beliefs and classical inspiration that entailed his process of literary creation. Similarly in The Spanish Tragedy’s prologue, Kyd introduces a hybrid Christian and pagan belief system that drives the theme of revenge. This belief system is itself a reference to classic epic poetry, and Kyd’s expansion of this classical universe asserts his play’s superiority. The self-aware manner in which the opening scene uses meta-theater reveals the viewer’s role as audience and Kyd’s role as playwright, making apparent his process of literary creation.
Works Cited
Kyd, Thomas. The Spanish Tragedy. New York: WW Norton, 1989.
Milton, John. Paradise Lost. London: Penguin Classics, 2000.
McLoone, Katherine. The Epic Prologue. Discussion Section: CL 2BW 1E. Week 6.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Thor on November 28, 2008 10:21 PM
I just forced myself to sit through it.

Nevermind the art style, nevermind that it's a bad rip off of another series, nevermind that this whole cartoon is a really long inside joke, this cartoon just... drags... on.... FOREVER
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: Mushroomboy5 on November 28, 2008 10:44 PM
MONSTER
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LOVE
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: jjjjjjjjjj on November 29, 2008 01:56 AM
Quote from: Squeef
[size=]WHO CARES ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT
FUCK YOU FAGGOTS[/size]
[/u]

Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: psi43 on November 29, 2008 06:27 AM
Quote from: LordZeebmork
Quote from: Belief
some people here (faggots like zeebmork and davebut) are spamming gay shit like blank screens cause they're simply bored and don't have a life, they act like they don't care about NG and just want to read funny reviews.
you are an idiot

I have only ever submitted two blank screens so uh

and yeah NG is past the point where it can be saved from mindless consumerist bullshit but if I didn't give a shit about it at all I wouldn't go there.

well you've said a lot of times that you didn't care about ng.

also I said "like blank screens" not "only blank screens".
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: egoraptor on November 29, 2008 11:52 AM
Quote from: LordZeebmork
also egoraptor the only problem I have with you is that you seem to actually think that your awesome series is good or takes any sort of flash skill and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. I wouldn't blame someone who can't get a better job than working at target for supporting that piece of shit store and I would hope that if you get your thumb out of your ass and stop being an egotistical faggot nobody would have a problem with you aside from making shitty video game bullshit. (not like that would ever happen since most of the members here are elitist fuckers who think everyone not in the ss should be kicked off the internet)

I don't know why you think this. I do enjoy a lot of the movies I've made simply because they made me laugh, but I don't think they really use any flash skill, and I've never said such a thing before or defended that. For the longest time I didn't know how to tween or use buttons, I just drew everything by hand one frame at a time, and that's something I've said over and over again. I'd really like to know why you think all of this, do you have a source? I've said a lot of things before, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't one of them.
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: f0d on November 29, 2008 12:02 PM
yeh sorry zeebmork but thats a retarded thing to say

"i only hate you because you like what you make!"
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: anigen on November 29, 2008 12:46 PM
what i've gathered from this thread:

- the whopper really IS better than a fillet mignon

- if the woman who ya datin lights a candle with her nose, and she tries to drain ya liquid from ya head down to ya toes, gosh i hate to tell ya buddy, gosh i hate to tell ya pal, but the woman that ya datin is a monster lady gal



on a final note, no one here ACTUALLY cares about the animation industry, you all just like to whine about dumb shit.

THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k100/starrystar2/LizaTonys.jpg)
Title: GUNS OF TEH AWESOME
Post by: rtil on November 29, 2008 12:48 PM
what a looker !