all of it
Pretty good, I don't have a response reaction .gif that encapsulates "Does your dad know you spend all your time making Chinese child porn doodles?" so text will have to suffice.
sup, names grinachi or whatever that old tba meme was i can't remember.Hi squeef.
Hi, I don't know who you are, or maybe I do, but I'm unfamiliar with this pseudonym.
Also, I'm glad I remembered this post
so I can link it to you now.
When I was a younger lad, my favorite part of the passage was this; "but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature’s excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can." Particularly the juxtaposition of one shitty scenario with an even shittier one. I reveled in it, it was delightful for me. I felt wiser by my having knowledge of it, for it seemed the ultimate answer to all of life's problems and inconsistencies. People are starving to death in Africa while I sit with plenty for naught but my good fortune to be born into an American family? This doesn't matter, we all ought not to exist at any rate. I suspect Bamyasi of being in at least a somewhat similar state of mind -- though probably more refined. The only difference between our viewpoints is that I don't see the first scenario as shitty at all: nonexistence is neutral when considering potential pleasure, and positive when considering potential suffering (Benatar's position). Though I understand where you're coming from, that the idea of nonexistence being preferable is an affront to the Pollyanna principle we were instilled with during childhood or nascent human evolution. It's not more refined, I just read Schopenhauer instead of Nietzsche.
Oh but it is shitty, not universally of course, but we can conceive of a universe without us in it. To nihilists like rtil, this is great, because it means no more Europeans mucking things up, but to decent
people -- humans deserve existence -- and probably all that that
entails. As I mentioned, SrsSam77 already summed up the best position on this matter, which is an all too human emotion. If God wants us dead, then God be damned. We are human beings, and we will make our presence in this universe felt. To care about why any of that is important probably requires a leap of faith, I have faith that there is more to life than pleasure and pain, beyond materialism. Even if its just imagined, and my imagining it is merely a source of pleasure, and so on ad infinitum.
But beyond that -- I believe it to be true. It seems self-evident to me, the most pernicious form of truth there is. There is more to life than pleasure or pain, one obvious one I can think of is growth. If the human species is like a cancer on the universe, well I mean, its only natural for us to want to expand to that entire universe yeah? I don't like comparing humanity to a cancer because I'm not a misanthrope, but you know, then I'm reminded of rtil and it becomes kind of hard to argue against. I'm kidding of course, rtil is a really shitty cancer, one which only inhabits its own website.
Also, I probably didn't do a good enough job getting it across that I no longer support Antinatalism. I used to, thanks to Nietzsche, me being 17, and a particularly bad romantic break-up I was going through at the time, but.
-- since obviously the currently unborn haven't really developed decision making yet. Or fingers. Or much of anything really. But I digress.The unborn don't have anatomy or autonomy, yes, but, like the noumenon they manifest, they Will have those things, or at the very least anatomy (feels pain) and the appearance of autonomy (inflicts it), if they happen to be concieved. It's cause and effect, and effect should always be considered when making a decision. In fact it's the only thing that should be considered (@basketweaver would disagree here but I'm just getting into all the Traditionalism and virtue ethics stuff).
Yes it was a bad aside and attempt at humor, but since you've taken it and expanded on it, now I have some meat. The world which you and I inhabit happens to be the coziest, though certainly not the kampfiest (ayyy), of all worlds before us -- excluding historical examples of complete outliers, say, Sultans with harems numbering in the thousands. This ought to be enough to persuade a reasonably intelligent individual such as yourself to want to imperfectly pseudo-clone yourself (I'm shoving this in here as a perspective on child birth to appeal to the sci-fi nerd in you). Unless of course you're not white, or worse, rtil. Then by all means, please continue supporting and promoting Antinatalism.
Do not go softly into that dysgenic night! You may be opposed to breeding for perfectly reasonable and understandable moral reasons, but UNICEF projects that Africa will number 3 billion strong by 2100, and imagining Imgbabwe from the Umbubtu village charting all this out and deciding not to have kids is about as close to real suffering as I can muster.
Whether or not OP is capable of admitting; understanding, believing, or even grokking it -- there exist people for whom suffering is not the greatest ill of existence.What's worse than suffering though? I'm basically including any possible negative experience under the "suffering" category.
Reading one of rtil's posts.
I jest, but, negative experiences can lead to positive outcomes with the proper willpower. I'll relate the story of my upbringing rather briefly, as it illustrates the point well enough. Me and my two brothers were raised in nearly identical situations, one of those brothers is only half-blood to me -- he has a different father, hence a different Y chromosome. I suspect this is part of the reason for his later self-destruction.
My father, was a bit of a drinker. Mean at that. He was a man who served in the USMC, so certainly about as far away from the milquetoast dramatic pansy we know only as rtil. This man, my father, whom I love, would sometimes get a little unhinged, and maybe smack a broad around every now and again, maybe a kid. My half-blood brother, the weak one. I think this environment destroyed him. You would probably say this was suffering, or, a negative experience. To be woken up at random, only to have your father savage you and your siblings for no discernible reason. The half-blood is now a tranny, so, about half as gay as rtil I suppose, I don't know, I can't really relate to that world.
The other brother, full-blood. He's a man's man of his own making. Been in and out of jail, handled himself like a man in the streets, a good man. Misguided, felonious, easily hateable, but a good man nonetheless. Now, he is clean and sober and raising his own kids, two little children he doesn't even beat the ever-loving shit out of like our old pops.
Then there's me of course, probably the most miserable of the bunch. But that's only because its 2016 and I'm posting on rtil's forum.
Most of OP's Antinatalism seems to emphasize suffering explicitly, while cozily ignoring the oft-repeated mantra that without pain, we cannot know happiness. I think this is a weak argument for life affirmation, personally, if only because I think happiness is a weak argument for anything that isn't consumer goods. In my opinion, saying "Yes" to life entails saying "Yes" to all of human and animal experience, including the worst imaginable suffering. If we say "Yes" to life, we have to say "Yes" to Peter Scully and Adam Lanza. We have to say "Yes" to the Holocaust, the Holodomor, Nanking, Hiroshima, Khmer Rouge and the Great Leap Forward. We have to say "Yes" to hard determinism and the inevitable entropic decay of the universe. We have to "[stand] stark naked before the silent, staring void" and answer "Yes." Most of all, we have to say "Yes" to a world in which only a very small fraction of this suffering is redeemed through art and catharsis. Which is all fine and good, but most Westerners don't live in a world where things like these exist, so it's not really possible for them to say "Yes." They live in a Hyperreal anime fantasy world (hi) in which they just do stuff without thinking about it or knowing why. They're silent, and silence does not imply consent. Same goes for people who live in the worst imaginable circumstances but just keep having children because they're stupid or horny or something I dunno.
It is absolutely a weak argument, I'd expect to find it on a bumper sticker or a washed up high school Art teacher's coffee mug (future gift ideas for rtil?). Luckily, you're a gracious host, and willing to overlook my muddy shoes I forgot to remove before stomping about your living room.
To answer your much more salient response in a word, "Yes". Yes to all of those things and much more. Consider that we are here, so far removed from that sin, and we know
it to be wrong. The point that people make mistakes isn't the problem. I'm aware you probably just scoffed involuntarily, and find reference to Holodomor as mere mistake callous at best
, but please, bear with me.
The only time making a mistake is a problem is if you fail to properly atone for it. The only time a negative experience is a problem is if you fail to improve from it. This is why the death of God is so vital, because we can now begin to fully understand that God was never killed, not really. You cannot kill the iron laws of nature, which is simply what God is. Gnon. We atone for the sins of our past daily
, to the point where it is arguable that Western people atone too much
I still struggle with this myself, as I'm recovering from a decade of thinking I was an atheist.
To your closing sentence, I naturally subscribe to the r/K selection theory as outlined by Anonymous Conservative, though it is a bit cheeky at times. You're talking about Africa, so let's just say Africa, and it is because they are r-selected. This is a euphemistic way of saying not only are they both stupid and horny, but, this is a viable breeding strategy for stupid horny people. To top it off, they don't give a shit about raising their kids, and the cycle repeats if they happen to bumble their way to reproductive age.
None of the tragedies you've listed is a strong argument to support extinction. And you should know, that if you do continue to support extinction, it is only you who will become extinct. Perhaps, consider that you merely don't want to fight, to struggle. Try imagining a reality in which you do raise the sword, because this is a zero-sum situation with competing groups, and if you morally and ethically 'an hero' your enemies certainly won't be weeping over your grave. They'll be too busy with the being stupid and horny bit as discussed previously.
If you think art and catharsis is the only positive outcome to all of this wanton destruction, consider that the new black plague which will inherit the Earth if the Occident just up and kills itself, doesn't give a single shit about art and doesn't even have a dictionary let alone an entry for catharsis
I'm not a Buddhist, because I'm Occidental. However, I suspect that Buddhism is very concerned with karmic balancing, is it not? Again, I am entirely ignorant of Buddhist thought, but this already seems like a massive hole in justifying your W.E.I.R.D guilt-trip fantasies with the mystical Orient, and her beautiful forms. Just be honest here, the only reason somebody would support Antinatalism is because of a deep desire to destroy themselves, and possibly the entire civilization which produced them, if only they had the button. This I believe is best topically summed up in rtil's poignant words -- eurocentric shithole.You're absolutely right here. I am W.E.I.R.D. and foster nothing but resentment for the societal and biological forces that conspired my parents to fuck, pulling me from the aether into this ridiculous corporeal slaughterhouse. I'm open to this being largely a response to living in a globalist society where irreconcilable cultural icons (Jesus and Anime) do battle. I guess that makes me a little like Europe sure.
Then stop promoting Globalism. We of course have a more healthy and robust alternative in the form of Nationalism. You can order your "Make America Great Again" hat at jebbush.com
The classic neoreactionary response you've just invoked goes like so; "if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."
SrsSam77 already demolished this thread in the fifth post, proving that old FYAD adage correct yet again. However, his brilliant work was met with softcore hentai, and a general malaise... shame on you OP! Shame! As I swear I'm getting to a point here, eventually, I'm connecting SrsSam77's post back to my earlier aside as follows.Well I'd put a lot of thought into the OP and Sam replied without really considering my position so I responded in kind.
I don't blame you! I just think he actually did make a fair enough point, though not in as many words. Also, the fifth post meme is classic and I adore it.
"if choice we have"If you're implicitly calling me a narcissist I must confess you're right again. Why isn't it a question though? More and more people are doing just that.
We as currently living beings have no choice. We were put here by our, presumably, loving parents, who also must've had good reasons one would hope. You can bemoan this fact; spend decades going into insane levels of detail about it, make philosophical and ethical arguments against it, but here we are. OP's only choice to make at this point is whether or not to continue the cycle. OP, the individual. OP, the single living person. OP, the easily quantifiable; accountable, numerable entity. The point we are all well to aware of is that, as individuals, our choice... to breed, or not to breed... is not much of a question.
Every man's favorite topic of discussion is himself. The point I failed to arrive at was that if you the individual decides not to breed, well, that's a drop in an ocean. The overwhelming majority of the other 7 billion Homos are probably never going to hear about Antinatalism, much less actually consider it viable or healthy.
It only matters when it has the effect on a national scale, as so eurocentrically pointed out by michaell, of course. I could just as easily argue Europe's decline is part of the "cycle," which Spengler did a hundred years ago. Or is that what you're saying?
You can protest.
But you can not break the cycle.
Not the cycle I'm referring to, though I love Spengler. I outlined above my position that you, acting individually, will be incapable of making the rest of humanity drink the kool-aid with you into that last good night. I probably should've avoided such a loaded word, but shitposting is more my speed, rather than these effort driven screeds.
The engine of suffering which drives man will jettison our genes across this galaxy someday. Oh but why bother? Which princess exactly are we trying to impress?
Well for me its enough that cumming in a pussy feels good, but, I realize I've got exceedingly low standards.
Antinatalism will be scattered to the winds; as will Feminism, Egalitarianism, Liberalism, and all the rest of the suicide cults seeking the destruction of the Occident. Add too: Humanism, Transhumanism, Antihumanism, etc.
Yeah. Honestly the end of my post just kind of segued into full on troll mode so, um. I'm kind of glad you bothered quoting it all though.
The White Man is the most in touch with Gnon, and he demands suffering, for his dark and terrible work remains incomplete without it.I'm very close to posting a smug anime face at this part, but I won't because I respect you (not that SMA is a sign of disrespect mind you).
Rome was built on the raped wombs of the suffering Sabine women. The Netherlands on the exploited Indonesians. America? Why, just crack open some Zinn or Chomsky my good man.
Nothing great was ever accomplished by a fucking quitter. Don't give up on yourself or your people! Be the change you want to see in the world! Heil Hitl- oh shit sorry wrong forum.
I'm trying to work on my writing and
my stand-up routine, so, I was kind of pleased with that bit. You should feel free to fight bullshit with bullshit.
But.I have no doubt I probably will too. Thank you for the thoughtful response.
Now, with the addition of a mere four or so years of age, I have an entirely new perspective. This bit actually relates to the on-going discussion, so thank you for bearing with me through the preamble.
Yeah I hope to one day end up like my mom or my uncle and just be at a point in my life where I go "This is it. These are all the things that I know. I don't need to know anything more than this. My opinions will remain unwavering until the day I die, from here on out." Maybe that's what parenthood is for.
Where should I start with Nick Land? I've skimmed xenosystems and plugged it here a few times but I don't think my knowledge base is very good.
I'm probably not the guy to ask, because, outside of his post on the Dark Enlightenment and uh, some other shit he's written, I have no respect at all for Nick Land -- and I kind of suspect that my knowledge base also isn't very good, and I wonder if that might be why? I instinctually don't like Nick Land as a man, and I sometimes feel that guts know more than brains, but I don't know. I'm aware that it isn't difficult at all to posit that Land is more intelligent than myself, but luckily for me I also don't consider intelligence to be the be-all-end-all arbiter of all that is good and holy and pure. See how the ego contorts and reflects? Its a perfect machine really.
That being said, I spent about 3 months or so making xenosystems a daily visit of mine, and probably the best bits I found were as follows;
* Land ripping on the "refugee" crisis
* The comments section
* The blogroll on the sidebar, where I found Jim's blog
* Jim's blog
, which I prefer to xenosystems
* Jim, who I prefer more as a man to Land, though I haven't seen a picture of Jim yet
edit: this just in, I've recently been informed that Jim might be a pedophile, so... But hey, fuck rtil am I right fellas?!
Also does anyone know what happened to Zeeb's blog?
No I do not, last I checked it was up, but alas now it is not. I was in touch with him recently via e-mail, and I have nothing but good things to say about the man, but, we don't exactly keep in touch.
As to your thread theme, I've been working on fascist vaporwave recently, and some of the tracks I think are pretty good. I would make fascist synthwave but that would require, like, effort, or talent.