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Offline shura
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2011 09:06 AM »
whoa when i made a post it got switched with the first post on the first page


edit: oh nvm my page settings got fucked up somehow :/
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011 09:08 AM by shura »

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011 09:16 AM »
facebook makes a new layout that everyone hates, people complain, but then eventually end up liking it. the cycle continues

yeah responses on this website and most others are really predictable.

"there is something new about x that i don't like" and after a few weeks they stop complaining about it
then there is the group of people that say "i never liked x to begin with"
then there are people like us who are like "man you guys are so predictable talking about x like that"

this is why the internet gets so tiresome

Offline Sinitron
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2011 10:05 AM »
then there's me and you can licky me dicky

Offline rtil
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011 10:42 AM »
facebook makes a new layout that everyone hates, people complain, but then eventually end up liking it. the cycle continues

yeah responses on this website and most others are really predictable.

"there is something new about x that i don't like" and after a few weeks they stop complaining about it
then there is the group of people that say "i never liked x to begin with"
then there are people like us who are like "man you guys are so predictable talking about x like that"

this is why the internet gets so tiresome

this has nothing to do with the internet, though. humans, by nature, generally dislike change. humans live by routine. when their routine is changed in any way, it disrupts what they're comfortable with. because we can, we complain about it. this has happened for thousands of years. it's not the internet you're tired of, it's people.

Offline psi43
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2011 11:11 AM »
well the funny part is that people complain, say that facebook sucks, some people even 'demand' things to be changed back or whatever but never really stop to think about that facebook is a 100% free service. if they wanted to put up porno ads, they could, if they wanted to take down facebook, they could.

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2011 11:52 AM »
it's not the internet you're tired of, it's people.

that is very true true.

i do sometimes use "people" and "the internet" interchangeably and that's certainly unfair. the internet shows people who are usually somewhat anonymous and almost always less tactful when speaking than they are in real life. people go online and dump all of their pent up emotions, so in this way it seems like most comments or posts were made by people who didn't think before they spoke.

i do think that real life interaction is very different from internet interaction. there are the obviously physical aspects like the way someone looks, hand gestures, etc, but one thing i think a lot of people forget is that not everyone is on the internet. some of the coolest and most interesting people i've ever met don't have youtube accounts or facebooks.

what i'm getting to with this is that while i may be sick of people in some way, i think i'm more sick of how people act when they use the internet. i think that it is different, people act differently now than they did ten years ago. and if they don't in person, even if in general people act the same now than they did back then, almost everyone acts differently online.

when the internet was not prevailing i was a kid, so a lot of this is just speculation. i have no idea what it's like to be my age at a time that is not dominated by internet activity. i've tried going without the internet for a long time, but as other people can tell you, it's hard. not because i miss the internet that much (ok, i do miss downloading movies and music and watching youtube videos of bands playing live, videos i'd never see without youtube), it's more that once i unplug my internet, i unplug everyone who talks to me except for my girlfriend. during the weeks i go without the internet, i seriously goes days without talking to anybody, not because i don't want to, but because people either don't want to or don't know how to get ahold of me without the internet. that's the main reason i still go online.

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2011 11:54 AM »
well the funny part is that people complain, say that facebook sucks, some people even 'demand' things to be changed back or whatever but never really stop to think about that facebook is a 100% free service. if they wanted to put up porno ads, they could, if they wanted to take down facebook, they could.

this is also a funny thing to note. a lot of people think that they're entitled to things that they aren't. they think they're entitled to a facebook page, and maybe they would be if they shelled out money for one, but it's free.

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2011 11:56 AM »
of course that's not limited to the internet. where i work a lot of people complain when the extra stuff that they get isn't given to them. if we're not doing a good job and they take away some extra privileges we had (like listening to music in certain areas while we work), everyone complains about it. as if the extra stuff wasn't "extra", as if they had a right to it.

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2011 11:57 AM »
hey guys let's make a misanthropy thread

Offline rtil
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« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2011 12:24 PM »
it's not the internet you're tired of, it's people.

that is very true true.

i do sometimes use "people" and "the internet" interchangeably and that's certainly unfair. the internet shows people who are usually somewhat anonymous and almost always less tactful when speaking than they are in real life. people go online and dump all of their pent up emotions, so in this way it seems like most comments or posts were made by people who didn't think before they spoke.

i do think that real life interaction is very different from internet interaction. there are the obviously physical aspects like the way someone looks, hand gestures, etc, but one thing i think a lot of people forget is that not everyone is on the internet. some of the coolest and most interesting people i've ever met don't have youtube accounts or facebooks.

what i'm getting to with this is that while i may be sick of people in some way, i think i'm more sick of how people act when they use the internet. i think that it is different, people act differently now than they did ten years ago. and if they don't in person, even if in general people act the same now than they did back then, almost everyone acts differently online.

when the internet was not prevailing i was a kid, so a lot of this is just speculation. i have no idea what it's like to be my age at a time that is not dominated by internet activity. i've tried going without the internet for a long time, but as other people can tell you, it's hard. not because i miss the internet that much (ok, i do miss downloading movies and music and watching youtube videos of bands playing live, videos i'd never see without youtube), it's more that once i unplug my internet, i unplug everyone who talks to me except for my girlfriend. during the weeks i go without the internet, i seriously goes days without talking to anybody, not because i don't want to, but because people either don't want to or don't know how to get ahold of me without the internet. that's the main reason i still go online.

that's just the direction society is going in, and it won't stop unless some catastrophic loss of infrastructure happens and we are forced out of using technology.

you probably think some of the most interesting people you've met lack social networking accounts because you directly correlate those sites with the people who use them that annoy you. most people use them for attention, to talk about how boring their lives are, they just can't help but broadcast every menial task they perform. but i honestly don't think there's any direct correlation. you just look in the wrong places, or are paying attention to only the parts that you don't like.

you shouldn't try and force yourself to live without modern advances in technology just because you see other people doing it. yes, you can survive without it, but to what effect? honestly, the internet has improved life and the world more than we will understand for the time being. to cast it aside because you only see the negative in it is stupid.

i'm not afraid to admit it. i can't live without the internet. not just because most of my social interaction happens online (even with real life friends who have moved away), but because all my revenue is generated from online activity. my very being centers around it. and i do not care. i enjoy it and i embrace it.

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2011 01:40 PM »
it's not the internet you're tired of, it's people.

that is very true true.

i do sometimes use "people" and "the internet" interchangeably and that's certainly unfair. the internet shows people who are usually somewhat anonymous and almost always less tactful when speaking than they are in real life. people go online and dump all of their pent up emotions, so in this way it seems like most comments or posts were made by people who didn't think before they spoke.

i do think that real life interaction is very different from internet interaction. there are the obviously physical aspects like the way someone looks, hand gestures, etc, but one thing i think a lot of people forget is that not everyone is on the internet. some of the coolest and most interesting people i've ever met don't have youtube accounts or facebooks.

what i'm getting to with this is that while i may be sick of people in some way, i think i'm more sick of how people act when they use the internet. i think that it is different, people act differently now than they did ten years ago. and if they don't in person, even if in general people act the same now than they did back then, almost everyone acts differently online.

when the internet was not prevailing i was a kid, so a lot of this is just speculation. i have no idea what it's like to be my age at a time that is not dominated by internet activity. i've tried going without the internet for a long time, but as other people can tell you, it's hard. not because i miss the internet that much (ok, i do miss downloading movies and music and watching youtube videos of bands playing live, videos i'd never see without youtube), it's more that once i unplug my internet, i unplug everyone who talks to me except for my girlfriend. during the weeks i go without the internet, i seriously goes days without talking to anybody, not because i don't want to, but because people either don't want to or don't know how to get ahold of me without the internet. that's the main reason i still go online.

that's just the direction society is going in, and it won't stop unless some catastrophic loss of infrastructure happens and we are forced out of using technology.

you probably think some of the most interesting people you've met lack social networking accounts because you directly correlate those sites with the people who use them that annoy you. most people use them for attention, to talk about how boring their lives are, they just can't help but broadcast every menial task they perform. but i honestly don't think there's any direct correlation. you just look in the wrong places, or are paying attention to only the parts that you don't like.

you shouldn't try and force yourself to live without modern advances in technology just because you see other people doing it. yes, you can survive without it, but to what effect? honestly, the internet has improved life and the world more than we will understand for the time being. to cast it aside because you only see the negative in it is stupid.

i'm not afraid to admit it. i can't live without the internet. not just because most of my social interaction happens online (even with real life friends who have moved away), but because all my revenue is generated from online activity. my very being centers around it. and i do not care. i enjoy it and i embrace it.

the reason i think that some of the most people i've ever met lack social networking accounts is because they DO lack social networking accounts. it's not like i just imagine that it's true, i've asked them and talked to them about social networking sites. and while many of them probably go to youtube, they don't have accounts there.

but that isn't the point, really. even if every single person in the world had a facebook or used a social networking site, that wouldn't mean that it is a good thing to have or use. i don't care if my idols or my parents or all of my best friends have one, that doesn't mean that i, or any one else should get one. so that's not part of my reasoning.

now, i do make the jump from "social networking sites" to "the internet/modern technology", and you followed me on this with your third paragraph. obviously, these are two separate things, i can live without social networking and still use modern technology. my stance is that i'm a bit skeptical of a lot of modern technology that is centered around use of the internet, and the internet itself, as i see that it causes a lot of wasted time, meaningless relationships, and an overall detachment from the physical happenings of the world.

is this completely true, or always absolutely true for everyone? probably not, but i'm still skeptical. i'm not going to go out and say "the internet is bad, here is why" because i'm not strong enough in my convictions yet, i just think that i'm noticing a pattern here.

there have been a few weeks where i would just unplug the internet unless i absolutely needed it (check work schedule, check bank account, etc). (i know i don't ABSOLUTELY need to do those things online, but this is for a different discussion). those weeks have been fairly productive, i usually have a lot more time and spend a lot more time doing things like reading and writing music. i don't have a t.v. so that is also eliminated as a time waster. and at one point, a friend of mine took a week off online as well, so we ended up hanging out a lot. this doesn't prove anything, but it makes it seem like the internet might be causing us to spend less time around each other. when we both unplugged, we magically had plenty of time to hang out.

then there are other aspects of the use of the internet that seem potentially unsatisfactory, but instead of typing those i'll let you watch this video,
[youtube]jM9kCb_5ZK4[/youtube]

i might sound like a hippie, but at this point i'm really wanting to avoid needing too many "things" to live. obviously you'll always need food and shelter and stuff, and i'll always need things like social interaction, probably musical instruments, other people's music, films, etc etc. but it'd be nice to not NEED the internet, whether its for social interactions or for money.

Offline Sef
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2011 01:42 PM »
gah, so much text with nothing to with a the original post

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2011 01:45 PM »
and a side note, after some consideration i do think that the internet could be doing a lot of good. the problem is, i don't really think that's it being used for the right reasons or being used properly for the most part. there is a lot of information on the internet, and the internet has helped to expand my musical horizons, to meet new people, to hear about a lot of things i would probably never have heard about otherwise (the whole "new atheism" movement for example). but most of the time people use it to bitch and moan to a larger amount of people, to look up pornography, to steal things easily, and as yet another escape from reality (there have been a lot of those since long before the internet, we don't need any more).

Offline redmongoose
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2011 01:51 PM »
Quote from: Inaxis
do u have a problem, bastard?!

Offline rtil
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2011 02:41 PM »
the reason i think that some of the most people i've ever met lack social networking accounts is because they DO lack social networking accounts. it's not like i just imagine that it's true, i've asked them and talked to them about social networking sites. and while many of them probably go to youtube, they don't have accounts there.

but that isn't the point, really. even if every single person in the world had a facebook or used a social networking site, that wouldn't mean that it is a good thing to have or use. i don't care if my idols or my parents or all of my best friends have one, that doesn't mean that i, or any one else should get one. so that's not part of my reasoning.
i don't think you understood what i was saying. i was making the point that "having a social networking account" and "being an interesting person" are not ever mutually exclusive or separate.

social networking can be a good or bad thing depending on how it's used. it's never black and white. that's all.

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now, i do make the jump from "social networking sites" to "the internet/modern technology", and you followed me on this with your third paragraph. obviously, these are two separate things, i can live without social networking and still use modern technology. my stance is that i'm a bit skeptical of a lot of modern technology that is centered around use of the internet, and the internet itself, as i see that it causes a lot of wasted time, meaningless relationships, and an overall detachment from the physical happenings of the world.

is this completely true, or always absolutely true for everyone? probably not, but i'm still skeptical. i'm not going to go out and say "the internet is bad, here is why" because i'm not strong enough in my convictions yet, i just think that i'm noticing a pattern here.
though you might not want to admit it, when you are interacting with anyone in any way with a piece of communications technology, you are socially networking in some fashion. the depth of it varies, but that's just a fact.

yeah, people waste time on the internet. that's one variable to human life that hardly correlates with how productive we are as a society. why do we waste time? there's a lot of reasons for that, and you can't blame one thing for it. if the internet wasn't around, people would waste their time doing arguably worse things.

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there have been a few weeks where i would just unplug the internet unless i absolutely needed it (check work schedule, check bank account, etc). (i know i don't ABSOLUTELY need to do those things online, but this is for a different discussion). those weeks have been fairly productive, i usually have a lot more time and spend a lot more time doing things like reading and writing music. i don't have a t.v. so that is also eliminated as a time waster. and at one point, a friend of mine took a week off online as well, so we ended up hanging out a lot. this doesn't prove anything, but it makes it seem like the internet might be causing us to spend less time around each other. when we both unplugged, we magically had plenty of time to hang out.

then there are other aspects of the use of the internet that seem potentially unsatisfactory, but instead of typing those i'll let you watch this video,
[youtube]jM9kCb_5ZK4[/youtube]
a television cannot be compared to the utility of a wired computer.. i'm not even going to entertain that. but yea, if your hobbies and work don't involve the computer, and you're on the computer all the time, you're not going to get anything done. and when that distraction is no longer available to you, you look for other distractions - like hanging out with friends. you're still wasting time, you just pin more value to it because it's something people do less often now.

btw, to embed youtube videos now you just paste the link to the video.

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i might sound like a hippie, but at this point i'm really wanting to avoid needing too many "things" to live. obviously you'll always need food and shelter and stuff, and i'll always need things like social interaction, probably musical instruments, other people's music, films, etc etc. but it'd be nice to not NEED the internet, whether its for social interactions or for money.
you seem to not want to need it simply because most people do, as if you have something to prove. like i'm less of a person than you for needing it for what i do.

and a side note, after some consideration i do think that the internet could be doing a lot of good. the problem is, i don't really think that's it being used for the right reasons or being used properly for the most part. there is a lot of information on the internet, and the internet has helped to expand my musical horizons, to meet new people, to hear about a lot of things i would probably never have heard about otherwise (the whole "new atheism" movement for example). but most of the time people use it to bitch and moan to a larger amount of people, to look up pornography, to steal things easily, and as yet another escape from reality (there have been a lot of those since long before the internet, we don't need any more).
escaping from reality is actually a very good thing.. i'm not sure why you'd think this was bad. every normal human being experiences this, be it through games, film, music, art, pick a hobby of your choice. everyone needs a break from life or we'd all go insane and kill eachother.

i also don't see how pornography is a negative thing either. pornography has been around since the dawn of man, we are sexual creatures and that's normal. nothing to really be ashamed of about that. i mean really, don't try and pretend you don't look at it/don't masturbate just like everyone else.

and as far as the rest of it goes, there's always going to be good with the bad. no one forces you to read or look at vlogs and comment sections of stupid website with people bickering with eachother over stupid things.

the internet has done so much good for the world, society and technology there's too much to list or count.

http://www.internetisshit.org/
this was a very unbiased review of the subject at hand. i learned a lot!

Offline trent bortknob
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« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2011 03:25 PM »
a lot of what you said is talked about in the video i linked you to.

it's not like i'm condemning you for anything. i hope you're not taking what i'm saying as a sort of personal attack, i don't mean it that way.

i also don't see how pornography is a negative thing either. pornography has been around since the dawn of man, we are sexual creatures and that's normal. nothing to really be ashamed of about that. i mean really, don't try and pretend you don't look at it/don't masturbate just like everyone else.

this is the only thing that i disagree with fully. i don't look at pornography, and while yes, i masturbate like everyone else, i don't need pornography to do so. i don't care if pornography has been around since the dawn of man, so has murder and slavery. yes, we are sexual creatures, and that helps us reproduce.

tell me one good reason to watch pornography. i can't think of any, really. i can, however, think of reasons not to look at pornography.

1. it is using another person or persons. the people in pornography become vehicles to your pleasure. they are not people who you respect or value.
2. it's unrealistic. pornography (usually) sets an unnaturally high bar for women and what their physical appearances should be. not only that, but sex as displayed by pornography is not what sex actually is like. (you could argue something like "cartoons don't mirror the real world, should we not watch those either?" but that is not the same, as porn is supposed to supply you with sexual fulfillment, as a replacement to the actual act itself. at least, that's my understanding.)
3. it can often be misogynistic, though that depends on the porn you're watching.
4. the whole genre is making money off of people's lust.
5. almost all sex in porn is even lower than casual sex (another thing that i take issue with), because it's done for money. it's on the level of prostitution in a way.

all of this makes me think that we'd all probably be a lot better off without it. though i don't think i'm going to change anyone's mind about this, this is why i don't watch it.

however, don't confuse these topics about ethics to be related to legality. i 100% think porn should be legal, as well as all drugs. just to clear things up.

Offline rtil
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« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2011 04:31 PM »
a lot of what you said is talked about in the video i linked you to.

it's not like i'm condemning you for anything. i hope you're not taking what i'm saying as a sort of personal attack, i don't mean it that way.
honestly i watched about a minute of it and got really bored. i'll give it another shot later tonight when i'm not so busy.

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this is the only thing that i disagree with fully. i don't look at pornography, and while yes, i masturbate like everyone else, i don't need pornography to do so. i don't care if pornography has been around since the dawn of man, so has murder and slavery. yes, we are sexual creatures, and that helps us reproduce.
what the hell kind of logic is that? you're condemning pornography by baseless association? this doesn't help your point. anyway, yeah, you can get your rocks off without it, because males are far more sexually charged than women (a great argument against "intelligent design" by the way)

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tell me one good reason to watch pornography. i can't think of any, really.
it's a catalyst to a release of tension in the male body. that's the only reason i can think of, and there's nothing wrong with it.

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i can, however, think of reasons not to look at pornography.

1. it is using another person or persons. the people in pornography become vehicles to your pleasure. they are not people who you respect or value.
the people in pornography chose to be in that profession. how they got there and why they do it is none of my business, and chances are they don't want or care for my respect, and they're clearly not looking for it.

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2. it's unrealistic. pornography (usually) sets an unnaturally high bar for women and what their physical appearances should be. not only that, but sex as displayed by pornography is not what sex actually is like. (you could argue something like "cartoons don't mirror the real world, should we not watch those either?" but that is not the same, as porn is supposed to supply you with sexual fulfillment, as a replacement to the actual act itself. at least, that's my understanding.)
then you represent the flawed understanding that belongs to people who can't separate reality from fantasy.

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3. it can often be misogynistic, though that depends on the porn you're watching.
then this point is relative and moot.

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4. the whole genre is making money off of people's lust.
and?

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5. almost all sex in porn is even lower than casual sex (another thing that i take issue with), because it's done for money. it's on the level of prostitution in a way.
legally speaking, porn is - by definition - acting.

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all of this makes me think that we'd all probably be a lot better off without it. though i don't think i'm going to change anyone's mind about this, this is why i don't watch it.

however, don't confuse these topics about ethics to be related to legality. i 100% think porn should be legal, as well as all drugs. just to clear things up.
it seems to me that you are leaning strongly on your second point, that porn gives men an unrealistic portrait of what sex is supposed to be like, and saps women of self-confidence. and again, i will say that if someone is unable to separate online pornography with their sex life and physical appearance, they are struggling with knowing what is reality and what is fantasy. and porn is hardly the main catalyst of society's unrealistic image of women. it mostly comes from casual media. tv, magazines, diets, celebrities, etc. in pornography it's really more about catering to personal preferences instead of one single "ideal" female image.

Offline rtil
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011 04:34 PM »
i also find your moral standings on this issue a bit strange. you come off as a religious person would instead of an atheist.

Offline shura
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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011 06:54 PM »
i dont think i can live without internet, but i can definitely live without facebook.
nothing wrong with using it, i just personally hate the spam, advertisements, shitty apps, and the never-ending installment of useless and broken features

also there's nothing wrong with porn, but you gotta admit that some of the shit you find online is really fucking twisted and disgusting. ie 2 girls 1 cup

Offline rtil
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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2011 06:55 PM »
i dunno if i'd call 2girls1cup porn.. but i'm sure it is to someone out there